should i be worried about my j-j results?

[ddudley 0]

Should I be worried about my J-J results?I got PokerTracker a couple weeks ago. I've logged about 7500 hands. Some of my worst starting hands include K-Ts, 5-5, J-J, Q-Ts, 5-4s and Q-9o.The other hands aren't really a surprise to me but, I'm really worried about my stats with J-J. In 31 hands I've lost $170 or (0.55) BB/hand. Other pairs:A-A 2.88K-K 2.33Q-Q 1.26J-J (o.55)T-T 1.369-9 0.12Obviously, I'm doing something wrong with J-J but I' not really how I should adjust my play after the flop. Any suggestions?

[GWCGWC 83]

Dudley, Are you playing LE or NL? What limits? Are you playing too aggressivly or not aggressive enough? What do you think the problem is?I am just above even with JJ in 1/2 Limit holdem. I hate this hand. I try to remind myself that while it is ahead preflop most of the time, unless it improves it is a dog at the river. Think of JJ like a middle/high pp, and play them like 99. <---this may help.The hand that has won me the most money is AKos. I think it has more to do with how often it comes and how I play it.

[ddudley 0]

oops, duh... that's kinda important isn't it?I'm playing 5/10 LHE, sometimes 10/20I think I'm playing J-J too aggressively and not folding it enough. I think of it as a group #1 hand and I guess I think it should win every time.If I could figure out how to post hands out of PokerTracker I'm sure everyone would get a good laugh at how bad I play J-J.

[Socko669 0]

There was a halfway decent article on playing jacks in cardplayer a few months ago. Might be worth checking out.

[GWCGWC 83]

oops, duh... that's kinda important isn't it?I'm playing 5/10 LHE, sometimes 10/20I think I'm playing J-J too aggressively and not folding it enough. I think of it as a group #1 hand and I guess I think it should win every time.If I could figure out how to post hands out of PokerTracker I'm sure everyone would get a good laugh at how bad I play J-J.

Ok, those games are so far outside of my bankroll that I wouldn't be able to give you anything that you don't already know.Too aggressive? I have that problem also, but usually it's because I have an overpair on an uncorridinated board and the river brings doom with an ace.Again, my limit and your limit are so completely different the only thing that is the same is the betting structures and the rules. I hope to get there someday.

[ddudley 0]

There was a halfway decent article on playing jacks in cardplayer a few months ago. Might be worth checking out.

Was that in limit or no-limit?

[ddudley 0]

I'm wondering what a normal win % would be for J-J? Mine is 45% right now.

[Actuary 3]

31 hands is hardly enough to worry about.At least look at QQ-TT to get a broader picture until u get more hands with JJ.I win 53.85% with JJ, 0.79 BB /handbut only dealt 52 times

[whoomprat 0]

I think I have the same problem with JJ. It's my least profitable pocket pair besides 22, 33, and 44. I think the problem lies in going to showdown 83% of the time for me anyway. With TT i've only gone to showdown 38% of the time and that hand is 4X as profitable for me.I think with JJ i usually click "raise any" out of laziness when multi tabling. Looks like SSHE recommends 3 betting JJ without exception, but it seems like there's situations that you should call and wait for a safe flop. Like if there's multiple cold callers in front of you?

[jsull 0]

I'm in the same situation with QQ right now. But I have just as small sample size. 28 hands, win percent = 35.71, down 1.26 bb/hand. But I look at when I'm losing big and I see rivered flush, and going against pocket Aces, etc...It'll all work out.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

Make sure you are running decent w/ JJ, i.e. in 45 hands you should have flopped close to 6 sets. 5 for sake of argument. Have you? This will help you get a better picture. Also do you win when you flop sets? Things to think about when determining whether variance is the culprit. Also I highly doubt you are playing this hand to aggressively on small bet streetsbet w/ a 4 bet cap . Look to see if you are spewing on later streets (hand histories).P.S. post some ^

[ddudley 0]

Make sure you are running decent w/ JJ, i.e. in 45 hands you should have flopped close to 6 sets. 5 for sake of argument. Have you? This will help you get a better picture. Also do you win when you flop sets? Things to think about when determining whether variance is the culprit. Also I highly doubt you are playing this hand to aggressively on small bet streetsbet w/ a 4 bet cap . Look to see if you are spewing on later streets (hand histories).P.S. post some ^

I've started with J-J 38 times and won 50% of them. I've flopped 5 sets and won all 5 of those hands for a total of $201 or 4.02 BB/set. I'm still losing 0.14 BB/hand overall.I'll have to figure out how to post those if I don't end up quitting poker first.

[ddudley 0]

Well I haven't quit poker yet so here goes...Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: ddudley is MP2 with [Jc], [Js]. UTG calls, 3 folds, UTG calls.Flop: (7 SB) [Td], [Ah], [3h] (3 players)SB checks, UTG checks, ddudley bets, UTG calls, ddudley calls.Turn: (6.50 BB) [2s] (3 players)SB bets, UTG calls, ddudley calls.River: (9.50 BB) [5c] (3 players)SB bets, UTG folds, ddudley calls.Final Pot: 11.50 BBNow that I look at this hand I should probably just go ahead and quit. Here's another poorly played gem...Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: ddudley is CO with [Jh], [Jd]. 5 folds, MP3 calls.Flop: (7.40 SB) [7s], [9s], [Qc] (2 players)MP3 checks, ddudley bets, MP3 calls.Turn: (4.70 BB) [Ad] (2 players)MP3 bets, ddudley calls.River: (6.70 BB) [9d] (2 players)MP3 bets, ddudley folds.Final Pot: 7.70 BBFinally folded one... he was probably semi-bluffing with J-10 the whole way...Not sure why but the hand converter won't do Pacific Poker hands so you just have to muddle through this one...***** Pacific Hand History for Game 88634371 *****$5/$10 Limit Hold'em - *** 09 26 14:06:43 2005Table Montecristo Robustos (Real Money)Seat 1 is the buttonTotal number of players : 8Seat 1: ddudley ( $317.75 )Seat 3: CPRAIL ( $472.92 )Seat 4: emtman ( $223 )Seat 5: jesterbb ( $1255.53 )Seat 6: Burns100 ( $629.77 )Seat 7: y0y0m4 ( $735.13 )Seat 8: MAVERlCK ( $474 )Seat 9: Brunate ( $611.55 )CPRAIL posts small blind [$2].emtman posts big blind [$5].** Dealing down cards **Dealt to ddudley [ Js Jd ]jesterbb folds.Burns100 calls [$5].y0y0m4 folds.MAVERlCK raises [$10].Brunate folds.ddudley raises [$15].CPRAIL folds.emtman folds.Burns100 calls [$10].MAVERlCK calls [$5].** Dealing Flop ** [ 9d, 9h, 8s ]Burns100 bets [$5].MAVERlCK calls [$5].ddudley raises [$10].Burns100 raises [$10].MAVERlCK calls [$10].ddudley calls [$5].** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]Burns100 bets [$10].MAVERlCK calls [$10].ddudley calls [$10].** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]Burns100 bets [$10].MAVERlCK folds.ddudley calls [$10].** Summary **Burns100 shows [ 9c 10d ].ddudley shows [ Js Jd ].Burns100 collected [$144].Beautiful... I have no other words for that one.Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: ddudley is UTG+2 with [Jc], [Jd]. UTG calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: (16 SB) [7h], [9c], [2s] (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, ddudley bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.Turn: (10 BB) [8s] (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, ddudley bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.River: (14 BB) [Jh] (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, ddudley bets, BB folds, UTG folds, ddudley calls.Final Pot: 18 BBBetting the river was just plain dumb... then I called the Check-Raise. Wow, I'm an idiot. I guess you could argue that the pot was way too big to fold even to a C-R.

[LuckyMcCatcher 0]

1st hand:Quit after you blank turn. Most people dont check raise preflop raiser w/ A on board if they cant beat JJ, plus there's another player. You could really fold flop if you wanted.2nd hand:Fold turn w/ 2 overcards. It is way more likely that he has an A than JT, but if u must call turn (which is real bad) folding the river is horrid. You need to pay off river in this spot if you call turn. I would say that folding turn is far superior.Now you just saved 3-4 big bets.3rd hand is fine but more read dependent. This is where you really, become expert at playing JJ type hands. All in all you played it fine. You need to call turn because you assume you have 6 outs, but think for a second about this opponent. What is he pounding that you can beat? He either slowplayed preflop w/ higher pair, or was raising a suited connector or 88(unlikely given flop action). You could find a fold here assuming this guy isnt overly tricky but I think you played it fine.4th hand: You obviously know the answer to this one. You lost 2 bbs on river when you bet into 3 players. One has to be drawing. Plus two are in the blind. If it was one or maybe 2 players I would say bet for value. They are less likely to cr head up on a 4 straight board, but this situation wreaks of a cr.All in all you have not been able to have JJ hold up unimproved, but you need to save bets when you are clearly beat. You had two clear folds, one that could have gone either way one you should have checked behind. I'm counting something like 5-6 bbs in 4hands. See how it adds up? You seem to understand what you need to do, but you are getting emotionally attached to the hands. Worry about making the correct play not your winrate with JJ. It seems like the way you play jacks could be leak that spills over to other hands such as 99-QQ. SInce you have been running bad w/ JJ you have noticed more, but be aware for the above hands as well. I think you assume people are putting moves on you when they are not.

[ddudley 0]

You seem to understand what you need to do, but you are getting emotionally attached to the hands.

I think you are right. I think it has to do with this being a Sklansky Group #1 hand.

Worry about making the correct play not your winrate with JJ. It seems like the way you play jacks could be leak that spills over to other hands such as 99-QQ. Since you have been running bad w/ JJ you have noticed more, but be aware for the above hands as well. I think you  assume people are putting moves on you when they are not.

Generally, I think I make better lay downs with Q-Q. I don't know why I'm so attached to J-J. I certainly play 10-10 and 9-9 a lot better too. You'd never see me calling down with 10-10 and 2 overcards on the board.