DwayneWayne 0 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 $100+9 on UB, $20,000 guarantee.231 to start37 left (40 in the money)Avg: 15K Player 1 is at seat 0 with 12870. Dwayne Wayne is at seat 1 with 14615. XXXXX is at seat 2 with 11415. XXXXXXX is at seat 3 with 18505. XXXXXXX is at seat 4 with 11690. XXXXXXXis at seat 5 with 27435. XXXXXXX is at seat 6 with 8715. XXXXXX is at seat 7 with 13340. Player 2 is at seat 8 with 15275. XXXXXXXXXX is at seat 9 with 18445. XXXXXXXXis at seat 8. Players Post ante (75). Player 1 posts the small blind of 300. Dwayne Wayne posts the big blind of 600. Dwayne Wayne: Ad KsPre-flop: Folded around to Player 2 in Middle/late position who has been aggressive but not overly, he raises it to 1800. Folded to the Small Blind, Player 1, who has been playing tight, he has folded his SB to me 3 of the last 4 orbits, he goes all-in for 12795. You look down at your AdKs.Your Play....? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Firstly AK is the most overplayed hand in poker. All you have is a drawing hand.Given that player 2 has raised in middle postion you might want to give him credit that he has a strong hand.Once player 1 pushes all in i think this makes it an easy fold. You still have lots of chips to play with after the hand. You also have to take into consideration that if you push all in aswell that player 2 might be calling too.You have to assume that if you call all in and wost case scenario the initial raiser calls aswell you are up against a decent pocket pair lets say QQ and that leaves the remaining two players with Aces and each others outs.I say lay this one down and wait for a better opportunity to make a play.Just out of interest what did both players end up holding? Link to post Share on other sites
gobears 0 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 If SB is tight, then he could have a premium hand. Any PP has a slight edge on you and one of the other players may have an A or K in their hand which takes away some of your outs.Add the potential three-way if initial raiser also calls, and I fold this and wait for a better opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites
DwayneWayne 0 Posted June 13, 2005 Author Share Posted June 13, 2005 When the hand came up, I was ready to push on the MP, but the tight SB player beat me to the punch, I thought about my options and finally laid it down not wanting to race off my last chips at that point. At the time it seemed like a much tougher lay down then it does now on paper. MP folded and the SB took the pot. Never got to see his hand.Ended up making a nice comeback and taking 3rd in the tourney. Nice little pay day.... Link to post Share on other sites
cdddc75 0 Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Pretty easy fold here.No reason whatsoever to race for chips here. And that's if you're lucky enough to be racing... Link to post Share on other sites
holman3rd 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 Pretty easy fold here.No reason whatsoever to race for chips here. And that's if you're lucky enough to be racing...Yes, I'd fold too, and once again it doesn't add value for me to reiterate the reasons that have already been discussed.However, I would like some thoughts on what you should have done if the SB folded, if that's alright.One line I like is to smooth call and then lead out the flop no matter what hits (aka the "stop and go"). I don't like pushing preflop in this spot against a bigger stack, even though he raised from late-mid position, which means he could be opening with a wide range of hands. If you completely miss the flop and your flop bet is raised, you can safely fold. I think a lot of players (assuming they just called from the BB), would "check to the raiser". That puts him in the position to bet with anything, regardless of whether the flop hit him. I'd rather take the lead. Sometimes, betting into a preflop raiser is interpreted as great strength. Link to post Share on other sites
DwayneWayne 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 how much are you leading at the flop with?50% of the pot? At this point doesn't this somewhat committ you to the pot?We have almost 5K in the pot, my stack would be at 12K after calling the raise.2-3K into this pot is what your gonna have to put into it letting go with any resistance, doesn't seem like the best value for 5K in chips with AK?A pair would be a better canidate for a Stop and Go here I feel.At this point in the tournament wouldn't the probablity of a steal increase your reason's for playing more aggressivley pre-flop? Link to post Share on other sites
Outlaw_IA 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 AK is never over-playedsw Link to post Share on other sites
holman3rd 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 how much are you leading at the flop with?50% of the pot? At this point doesn't this somewhat committ you to the pot?We have almost 5K in the pot, my stack would be at 12K after calling the raise.2-3K into this pot is what your gonna have to put into it letting go with any resistance, doesn't seem like the best value for 5K in chips with AK?A pair would be a better canidate for a Stop and Go here I feel.At this point in the tournament wouldn't the probablity of a steal increase your reason's for playing more aggressivley pre-flop?Let me try to explain further. (sorry if my calcs are off..i'm going kind of fast here).An aggressive player makes a standard lead raise in late/mid position. Clearly this could be a steal attempt. Everyone folds to me and I smooth call in the BB. Pot now has 3900.On the flop I lead with about 2500. It doesn't matter that I have AK...I could do this with 72. My plan is to bluff the aggressor off the pot if it missed him, which it probably did. I don't know what kind of player this is, other than he's "aggressive". If he's thinking at all, he's probably thinking, "Wtf? i raise, he calls and leads into me out of position?...he must hit the flop." If he has nothing but high card, he'll probably fold. If he calls me, I still have 2 overcards. If he comes over the top of me, i probably give it up.Just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 My plan is to bluff the aggressor off the pot if it missed him, which it probably did. I don't know what kind of player this is, other than he's "aggressive". If he's thinking at all, he's probably thinking, "Wtf? i raise, he calls and leads into me out of position?...he must hit the flop."An aggresive good player will read your play and most likely reraise your small bet. Do you have the balls to come back over the top of him assuming you are playing a weaker hand with no over cards to draw too? Link to post Share on other sites
holman3rd 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 An aggresive good player will read your play and most likely reraise your small bet. Do you have the balls to come back over the top of him assuming you are playing a weaker hand with no over cards to draw too?Question really is does the aggressor have the balls to come over the top of me (which would start to put a serious dent in his stack). In this spot, I would not think so.But, to answer you're question...no, I probably wouldn't be prepared to carry this bluff through to the end if he came over the top of me. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anonymous Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 ive made this play before. bet the flop got reraisedi pushed all intook down the potreally gets the adrenaline going Link to post Share on other sites
holman3rd 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 ive made this play before. bet the flop got reraisedi pushed all intook down the potreally gets the adrenaline goingTakes a lot of heart. I need bigger b@lls for sure. Perhaps I shouldn't initiate these types of moves unless I'm prepared to follow through. Link to post Share on other sites
DwayneWayne 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 not to pick but there is 750 not accounted for (antes), it makes a little bit of a deal with regard to the size of the bets needed to make this play.I like the play, the player i was against was a top 20 ranked player on pocketfives.com, for what ever that is worth...I still think if I am spending 5K on the hand my best use is pre-flop. Link to post Share on other sites
holman3rd 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 not to pick but there is 750 not accounted for (antes), it makes a little bit of a deal with regard to the size of the bets needed to make this play.I like the play, the player i was against was a top 20 ranked player on pocketfives.com, for what ever that is worth...I still think if I am spending 5K on the hand my best use is pre-flop.That's right, and it's the reason my pot size is off. Man, I'm tired today. :oops: But, I do think that pushing preflop is a good line too. I'm not saying I would take the smooth call line all the time. However, since you mentioned that the player was top-ranked, I think the smooth call makes more sense. He's going to try to put you on a hand. If he reads your bluff line, you have to push over the top, which has been mentioned already. Again, I'm not sure I have the stones for that. Link to post Share on other sites
DwayneWayne 0 Posted June 14, 2005 Author Share Posted June 14, 2005 fairenough, from other posts i like the way you have alternate lines to every play...i appreciate that here.GL.... Link to post Share on other sites
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