serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 You guys are proving the point already. You realize we represent very hard core hockey fans. Most of us would go to a game at any opportunity, anywhere. But even we are divided about going, and thats with all the shine of a new arena. Or 'if the leafs were in town' or other qualifiers. You're NEVER finding 12,000 people to buy seasons tickets for a base. Sure, some transient tourist tickets would get out there but not enough to make it work. And the NHL hates the optics of empty arenas. Very good points. But why fight in losing markets like Miami, Arizona( took bazillion years, still not really clear). Amongst others. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't get the Toronto situation. How can Mlse ever agree to it. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Very good points. But why fight in losing markets like Miami, Arizona( took bazillion years, still not really clear). Amongst others. I"m not saying that those markets should have teams either. I think quebec should. Period. Like I mentioned, the NHL studied it a few years back. Their problems with it made it clear it wouldn't work. And listening to everyone rave about vegas reminded me of that fact. LOL And we haven't even mentioned television. Which is a huge part of any deal. Maybe the biggest part. The networks would have to fork over MORE money for new franchises because existing ones wouldn't want to split their revenue any further. So you'd have to negotiate new national deals and make new regional deals. I don't see any network in Nevada paying a few hundred million to pick up hockey. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 When we had dinner with bettman a few years ago in Vegas, he said there is no such thing as territorial rights. They can put a franchise anywhere they want. Daniel will remember that one. It was a bit of a shocker. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't get the Toronto situation. How can Mlse ever agree to it. I don't understand why they should have any say. Why should the nhl protect their monopoly when two teams would likely make more than just the one. There's more money to go around in this market. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 How many people actually live in Vegas? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 according Wiki as of 2010 just under 2 million in Metropolitan Vegas... Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 How many people actually live in Vegas? 596,000 Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 596,000 Thats just the city.... Just like just the city of Toronto is 2.5 million.. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thats just the city.... Just like just the city of Toronto is 2.5 million.. Yes, you're right. Just double checked. Here's the killer: avg per capita income: 24,899 Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I don't get the Toronto situation. How can Mlse ever agree to it. Seems to me, the whole Rogers-Bell thing seems to play very nicely into the possibility of 2 Toronto teams. Might just be a pipe dream, but I could see one bow out of MLSE for the right to buy the expansion team. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think Vegas would have a chance if they had a split seating area with the lower section for people actually there to watch the game and an upper section for gambling and watching the game...probably have to put up tinted glass, a net or something to protect those not paying attention. How does the NHL feel about gambling in one of its arenas? If an NHL team makes more money from gambling than from actual hockey is it a successful hockey franchise? Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 MLSE has stated for years that they only have one vote as far as a second team in the GTA. I think a second team in the GTA would hurt the Sabres more than the Leafs. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think Vegas would have a chance if they had a split seating area with the lower section for people actually there to watch the game and an upper section for gambling and watching the game...probably have to put up tinted glass, a net or something to protect those not paying attention. How does the NHL feel about gambling in one of its arenas? If an NHL team makes more money from gambling than from actual hockey is it a successful hockey franchise? Bettman is hard line anti gambling. He hates pro-line, and all the sports books. Why? Because they don't get any of the revenue. I can tell you from the inside a little that he was really angry with the Devils doing a sponsorship deal with Party Poker in NJ. But he allowed it because party gaming doesn't have a sports book. And because the devils desperately needed the income. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 So basically $$$$ will change his mind because he works for the owners. How much revenue would a casino/arena generate a year? Keep in mind that it wouldn't necessarily have to be open only during games. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 The more I think about it the more I believe a team in Vegas would work...it just needs to be done a little differently. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Bettman is hard line anti gambling. He hates pro-line, and all the sports books. Why? Because they don't get any of the revenue. I can tell you from the inside a little that he was really angry with the Devils doing a sponsorship deal with Party Poker in NJ. But he allowed it because party gaming doesn't have a sports book. And because the devils desperately needed the income. Here is the thing they dont understand, I am pretty sure they are smart people but they need to see the reality... Millions of dollars is bet on the NHL...Some of it legally offshore, but a lot of illegally...With shady people that reside in NHL cities....Again I dont know the numbers and I maybe off, but I am willing to guess that there is more money bet on the NHL in Toronto on a saturday night, then there is in Las Vegas...Be it through proline, bet365 type books or with Enzo from Woodbridge. I feel the same way about poker....There are 100s of illegal games that run in Toronto from MOnday to Sunday..I know of at least 10 games that are run within 10-15 minute drive from my house in Pickering...And these are just the ones I KNOW...I dont get involved in the illegal chinese, greek, italian run games all over.... Be smart about it, if its going to happen anyway...Make it legal to bet on the NHL... If people want to fix NHL games, they can fix them without a team in Vegas...I bet the fact that there are legal casinos, makes it TOUGHER for games to be fixed in Vegas. Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The more I think about it the more I believe a team in Vegas would work...it just needs to be done a little differently. From an ownership perspective alone, it's a nightmare. The only guy in the southwest with the money and the inclination is Bruckheimer. He's not involved with a casino. The NHL is unlikely to let a casino own a team, just on optics. And, where the hell is your tv revenue coming from? And your fans? Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Here is the thing they dont understand, I am pretty sure they are smart people but they need to see the reality... Millions of dollars is bet on the NHL...Some of it legally offshore, but a lot of illegally...With shady people that reside in NHL cities....Again I dont know the numbers and I maybe off, but I am willing to guess that there is more money bet on the NHL in Toronto on a saturday night, then there is in Las Vegas...Be it through proline, bet365 type books or with Enzo from Woodbridge. I feel the same way about poker....There are 100s of illegal games that run in Toronto from MOnday to Sunday..I know of at least 10 games that are run within 10-15 minute drive from my house in Pickering...And these are just the ones I KNOW...I dont get involved in the illegal chinese, greek, italian run games all over.... Be smart about it, if its going to happen anyway...Make it legal to bet on the NHL... If people want to fix NHL games, they can fix them without a team in Vegas...I bet the fact that there are legal casinos, makes it TOUGHER for games to be fixed in Vegas. You misunderstand: he would take the revenue. But pro-line and the books don't have to share it with them. No one does, and no one will. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 From an ownership perspective alone, it's a nightmare. The only guy in the southwest with the money and the inclination is Bruckheimer. He's not involved with a casino. The NHL is unlikely to let a casino own a team, just on optics. And, where the hell is your tv revenue coming from? And your fans? I had the perfect group.. Poker player group backed by Guy Laliberte... I am sure he has the money..He is Canadian, he must love hockey.. Involve some other big names like Celine Dion, then throw a few hockey guys in there led by Wayne Gretzky.. Better than half the ownership in the NHL...BOOM.. Done Link to post Share on other sites
gruven 530 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I had the perfect group.. Poker player group backed by Guy Laliberte... I am sure he has the money..He is Canadian, he must love hockey.. Involve some other big names like Celine Dion, then throw a few hockey guys in there led by Wayne Gretzky.. Better than half the ownership in the NHL...BOOM.. Done I think the fact that Guy is smart enough to have become a billionaire means he's smart enough to know that it's hard enough to fill his cirque shows in vegas every night. Adding a competing industry without the partnership of a casino would be pretty idiotic for him. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Chris, I just want to thank you for your insight and the nuggets of info you give us. We can't get that anywhere else. How many platinum seats are at the ACC? Can anyone (or a group) start a casino in Vegas? Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I think the fact that Guy is smart enough to have become a billionaire means he's smart enough to know that it's hard enough to fill his cirque shows in vegas every night. Adding a competing industry without the partnership of a casino would be pretty idiotic for him. Good point.. But what other fun toys can a billionaire buy with $200-$300 million (maybe more)... Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Laliberte is from Quebec City. I dont know the man at all, but Id wager he`d rather be associated with bringing hockey back to Que city, than to LV. Link to post Share on other sites
serge 904 Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 According to Wiki he is worth $2.6 Billion Steve Ballmer can buy the Clippers for $2 billion.. There has to be someone with money interested in Vegas.. Phoenix Arizona to me is nowhere as interesting as Vegas for a prospective owner.. As Chris says its not an easy sell...But nothing is easy...If Cirque can sell tickets every night for decades in Vegas, why cant the NHL... Here is a number to chew on.. in 2012 39.7 MILLION people visited Las Vegas.. Link to post Share on other sites
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