**** Block

[Ninja Ace 1]

LOL u has K2 fold preflop stop being a spewy retard etc etc.Anyway, obv my image is a spewy aggressive retard.Failed squeeze and semi-bluff raise on the blocker. Villain is 91/5/2.4Converted by the cows of Feral Cow PokerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.10/$0.25 - 6 playersButton: $25.00 SB: $45.17 BB: $48.86 (Hero)UTG: $27.51 UTG+1: $29.45 CO: $34.01 Preflop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with (6 players)3 folds, Button raises to $0.75, SB calls $0.65, Hero raises to $3, Button folds, SB calls $2.25Flop: ($6.75) (2 players)SB bets $2, Hero raises to $12.75, SB calls $10.75Turn: ($32.25) (2 players)SB bets $2, Hero ?

[hartman72 0]

Raises to 18, shoves on river

[Ninja Ace 1]

Raises to 18, shoves on river

I'm pretty sure this is like the worst option here... we have a PSB left so any realistic raise is effectively a shove... why give our hand strength away by choosing a bet size that says "please don't fold"?

[hartman72 0]

I'm pretty sure this is like the worst option here... we have a PSB left so any realistic raise is effectively a shove... why give our hand strength away by choosing a bet size that says "please don't fold"?

Well, we aren't just going to call. I mean, shoving here is ok here I suppose, but a raise to 18 is the same thing. Are you saying Villain folds to our 18 dollar raise but would call a shove?

[Ninja Ace 1]

Well, we aren't just going to call. I mean, shoving here is ok here I suppose, but a raise to 18 is the same thing. Are you saying Villain folds to our 18 dollar raise but would call a shove?

You would be quite amazed at how a decent number of players really will fold to a smaller raise but not a shove... especially when facing an opponent (myself) who is consistently firing huuuuge bets with air or really light (not in this spot but villain doesn't know that about my game i'm fairly certain)I don't mind a shove at all... but I'm wondering what the thought process is for why someone thinks we should shove and why its the optimal playPersonally I think flatting here is way better than shoving and already know why but i'd like to hear responses first...

[hartman72 0]

Ok.....so raising to 18 (which isn't that small by the way) screams "please don't fold" but calling a two dollar bet into a ~20 dollar pot accomplishes what? He called your raise on the flop, there's a very good chance he'll call on the turn as well.

[Mills 0]

From what i've seen in micro stakes, this sort of line is quite often a big hand for the villian... small donk, calling a big raise, small donk again... I dont like a flat because another spade can come off and scare him, it looks like he's ready to go, get it in

[hartman72 0]

You would be quite amazed at how a decent number of players really will fold to a smaller raise but not a shove... especially when facing an opponent (myself) who is consistently firing huuuuge bets with air or really light (not in this spot but villain doesn't know that about my game i'm fairly certain)I don't mind a shove at all... but I'm wondering what the thought process is for why someone thinks we should shove and why its the optimal playPersonally I think flatting here is way better than shoving and already know why but i'd like to hear responses first...

If you already know why (which I disagree with), why would you even post this??

[KingJames 11]

If you already know why (which I disagree with), why would you even post this??

To generate discussion, yoI like shovingThere is no way to raise anything other than all-in and make it look like you want a fold

[hartman72 0]

I know that 2 + 2 is 4.......I'm not going to start a discussion about it.As for the hand, I'm not disagreeing with a shove. But IMO, villain folds to a shove just as often as a raise. And I think calling is pointless.

[Ninja Ace 1]

If you already know why (which I disagree with), why would you even post this??

LOL at me being berated cuz of my post count on this account. <3 u guys. Read and learn.

From what i've seen in micro stakes, this sort of line is quite often a big hand for the villian... small donk, calling a big raise, small donk again... I dont like a flat because another spade can come off and scare him, it looks like he's ready to go, get it in

This really isn't very true at all. On the occasion you see an opponent with reasonable TAG stats he may be pulling some sort of trap trying to get the aggro to push off the blocker but what his range is weighted towards actually heavily changes why flatting > shoving here.Blocker bets occur from bad players for 2 reasons generally1) they are on a draw and want to see the card cheaply2) they have some sort of meakish hand they'd like to take to showdown as cheaply as possibleThis guy has double blocked us, and the major draws on the flop completed. This makes me believe his range is mostly pair/broadway spade combos, aces with a weak kicker, and the occasional set or two pair. Shoving really makes most of these hands go away right now... they may look us up sometimes but its doubtful that we're getting looked up in a 200bb pot hitting the gas the whole way with a very light hand.With the pair/broadway spade combo we obviously would like him to hit another spade to pay us something on the river, or to make 2 pair and stack off.With the weak ace again we want him to improve to stack off.With the 2 pair or set situation it's give and take... yes, we are risking a spade hitting and those hands going away, but there aren't as many left in the deck. Also, you don't really have to worry about the board pairing and them re-drawing on you because they weren't folding on the turn to a shove (we hope) so you weren't getting away from the boat no matter what line you took.The other piece to this is, when we flat the turn and then pump the river (if blocked or checked to) what exactly does our hand look like that has any credibility? Obviously this is river dependent but most times it will brick

[hartman72 0]

Villain called ~25 percent of his stack on the flop. There's no reason to believe he won't call a raise on the turn. If villain took a different line....I might agree with what you said

[Chet Chetterson 0]

I think flatting this is just getting way too fancy for this level of play. What type of hand can villain put you on if you take a flat call as the turn line besides a monster? Shove AINEC for me.

[Mills 0]

LOL at me being berated cuz of my post count on this account. <3 u guys. Read and learn.This really isn't very true at all. On the occasion you see an opponent with reasonable TAG stats he may be pulling some sort of trap trying to get the aggro to push off the blocker but what his range is weighted towards actually heavily changes why flatting > shoving here.Blocker bets occur from bad players for 2 reasons generally1) they are on a draw and want to see the card cheaply2) they have some sort of meakish hand they'd like to take to showdown as cheaply as possible

This explains why he called an 11 dollar raise, clearly Then he donks out again... why?this is a big hand way more often than you are giving it credit fordonk bets are made for the reason you mentioned, but to me the call re donk is more indicative of a big hand.

[Ninja Ace 1]

This explains why he called an 11 dollar raise, clearly Then he donks out again... why?

I swear on my life from bad players this is "can i has another card plz" like 90% of the time.I take this line and shove brick rivers on drawy (but incomplete) boards and PRINT money

[Ninja Ace 1]

I know that 2 + 2 is 4.......I'm not going to start a discussion about it.

If i was 3-betting with K-2s and was clueless on what to do in a hand i hit the nuts the best advice to give me would be to quit poker. Seriously.

[hartman72 0]

I swear on my life from bad players this is "can i has another card plz" like 90% of the time.I take this line and shove brick rivers on drawy (but incomplete) boards and PRINT money

What are villains calling you on brick rivers that they wouldn't call on the turn?

[Ninja Ace 1]

What type of hand can villain put you on if you take a flat call as the turn line besides a monster?

I don't think you're quite inside of the head of someone with a 91% VPIP

[Ninja Ace 1]

What are villains calling you on brick rivers that they wouldn't call on the turn?

Which are you referring to?A board that lays out like 9s 8s 2h 3d 3c or this hand?On this hand the line looks more like a bluff, and he has a chance to improve or throw out another bet.

[Mills 0]

I don't think you're quite inside of the head of someone with a 91% VPIP

it's pretty clear you just made this thread to tell everyone how great you played... if we agree, can we consider the matter closed?

[hartman72 0]

Which are you referring to?A board that lays out like 9s 8s 2h 3d 3c or this hand?On this hand the line looks more like a bluff, and he has a chance to improve or throw out another bet.

I'm talking about any drawy but "incomplete" boards you described earlier. You say it's better to call the blocker bet on the turn, then shove on a brick river and you "print" money. My question is why is that better than raising the turn. If they're giving u money on brick rivers, they're gonna give u money on the turn.

[Chet Chetterson 0]

If your image is spewy retard your best play is to shove this to take advantage of your image, flatting here is outside of your image. This player looks horrible enough that you get the money either way

[Ninja Ace 1]

I'm talking about any drawy but "incomplete" boards you described earlier. You say it's better to call the blocker bet on the turn, then shove on a brick river and you "print" money. My question is why is that better than raising the turn. If they're giving u money on brick rivers, they're gonna give u money on the turn.

Because most hands I'm in I doesn't has nothin but 10 high

[Ninja Ace 1]

This player looks horrible enough that you get the money either way

Definately possible

[Stupidhead 2]

Which are you referring to?A board that lays out like 9s 8s 2h 3d 3c or this hand?On this hand the line looks more like a bluff, and he has a chance to improve or throw out another bet.

There is no way in hell he donked the flop, called our raise, and donked the turn with complete air. I think it can be a draw a good amount of the time, but that's why we should be raising the turn. He's never ever folding a draw or anything he see's as a value hand. Which for all we know can be 76.