Commerce 9/18 hand from today.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm in the small blind with Jd9d. Four limpers to me, I complete, BB checks.Flop is Js 6d 2c. Checked to the button who bets, I raise, 1 limper and the button call.Turn is 8h. I check, the limper bets, the button folds, what's my play?Should I have bet out here?

[DwayneWayne 0]

I think betting out is a better play, if you get raised you can probably put it down and just move on to the next hand. I'm having trouble putting the limper on a hand. 66, 22, or even a bigger J then you ....a bet will help identify where you are...

[Smasharoo 0]

I think betting out is a better play, if you get raised you can probably put it down and just move on to the next hand. I'm having trouble putting the limper on a hand. 66, 22, or even a bigger J then you ....a bet will help identify where you are...You're probably right, but I decided to check.Do you call the bet here, raise or fold?.

[jayboogie 0]

it's pretty clear you fold here, your J is probably no good with a weak kicker, you've also got no draws to help you out either, so it's pretty clear you fold.

[Smasharoo 0]

it's pretty clear you fold here, your J is probably no good with a weak kicker, you've also got no draws to help you out either, so it's pretty clear you fold.Really? I think I'm probably best here about half the time.

[DwayneWayne 0]

This is def not a CLEAR fold, your getting 10-1 on the turn call, you have to put your opponent on a hand and I am having a tough time so most ppl say when you don’ t know just fold....which I think IS probably the better play (only after checking the turn), but not CLEAR . I don’t know what hand he would have that he would have not bet out on the flop after you checked or 3 bet you and the button after you check –raised??? I’m lost with his play, god bless him....If you call the turn I think you have to bet the river and fold to a raise. The smart/safer play is probably to fold. A turn bet would have made this play easier I think espc. after you check-raised that flop.

[Smasharoo 0]

Considering the pot size I think folding here would be stunningly bad. Anyway, I raised. Here's my thinking, let me know if makes sense to anyone else:I think he's betting out on this turn because he percieves my check here as weakness after CRing the flop maybe putting me (rightly in this case) on a weak jack. By check raising again I think I accomplish a couple of things.1. I can easily fold to a three-bet without worrying that I might have been best.2. I think I have some fold equity here and on the river. Allthough most players are smart enough not to fold top pair in a pot this big heads up, there are still quite a few who like to make "the big laydown" reasoning I MUST be better than TPTK with two checkraises here.3. Folding top pair here sucks.Think about it from his point of view. Let's say he has AJ and checks the flop to raise to protect his hand. I CR before he can so he just calls reasoning I could have some sort of funky two pair from the SB. I check the turn, he bets and I CR AGAIN.I can almost gurantee that if I post that hand putting myself in his position 90% of the responses are going to say "Fold, he has at least two pair."

[DwayneWayne 0]

I don’t see what hand is 3 Betting the turn after a check-raise here and I don’t see a hand that is laying down either. Only JJ could possibly 3-bet or even 88 would make that play. So I think the check-raise here is putting money in when you are DEF ahead less then 50% of the time. For Your reason’s 2 and 3 its hard to make a case that your opponent will lay down a better hand then yours, so I don’t see how your gonna win this pot at the showdown without hitting the river or actually being ahead at this point.....

[Smasharoo 0]

Your reason’s 1 and 2 its hard to make a case that your opponent will lay down a better hand then yoursWhy? You're going to lay down top pair to a turn bet here, are you telling me if you had AJ and were playing against me and I C/Red twice you're not going to lay it down?Explain to me how me folding top pair here to a single bet would be good, but him folding top pair to two check raises in a row wouldn't.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm gonna start a new topic in the General forum about this hand to see what people think from the other side.Mum's the word.

[DwayneWayne 0]

No I’m not gonna lay down top pair if you bet out the turn, I would raise if I had AJ. But with the current line of the hand your putting your opponent on a hand that he is willing to bet out into the turn, into a player who bet the Flop and called the CR on the flop (the button) and the original CRer (You).I think he is stronger then top pair and is not folding to a CR in this spot. That is what I am saying.You can’t argue that this play is better then just betting out the turn and folding to a raise after you check-raised the flop with J9.

[Smasharoo 0]

You can’t argue that this play is better then just betting out the turn and folding to a raise after you check-raised the flop with J9.No, you're right about that, and I'm not.I'm arguing raising is better than folding or calling after I make a clear error and don't bet out.

[DwayneWayne 0]

For the price of the raise you can see a showdown.I don't think your opponent is laying down....Folding is def not correct, I'll be honest I'm lost on what your opponent has here with his betting pattern. Why bet the turn if he didn't 3-Bet the flop?

[Smasharoo 0]

For the price of the raise you can see a showdown.I don't think your opponent is laying down....Folding is def not correct, I'll be honest I'm lost on what your opponent has here with his betting pattern. Why bet the turn if he didn't 3-Bet the flop?So am I.That's why I raised.I figure if he's hit a set or something that he was slowplaying I'll hear about it now heads up on the turn and get away from it. If he just calls, I can almost allways get a free showdown against TP on the river if I don't want to take a shot at the pot by betting out.I don't think a showdown costs me any more when I raise here unless he some crazy hand like JJ which seems pretty unlikely.

[jayboogie 0]

i think i probably skimmed through your post a lil to quick and yeah it would be hard to lay down the top pair and I don't know I probably wouldn't lay it down, but I think most likely your beat here. But, I don't know your opponents, type of game that is going on and etc, so it's hard for me to really say either. I think you should have probably bet out though, that would make an easier fold if raised, like somebody else mentioned before. The thing is I don't imagine somebody else not having at least a jack and a better kicker betting out in this situation, by checking and just calling his bets, your basically just calling him down and giving up control, so you won't win as much if you do have the best hand and will lose more if you have the worst hand.

[Smasharoo 0]

By the way, the first post on the thread I posted where I have KJ and I'm playing against me is "You should probably lay it down".We'll see how that one turns out.It's easy to think I don't have any fold equity here when you know how weak my hand is. I think seeinng it without knowing I'm making a play with J8 it's a lot higher than you might think.

[Smasharoo 0]

I think you should have probably bet out though, that would make an easier fold if raised, like somebody else mentioned before. Yeah, I should have.I don't know what I was thikning. It's unlike me to check there unless I'm going to take a shot a double C/Ring a set or something. That's partially why I decided to raise when he bet, because I realized it would look exactly like I had 66 and he might lay it down.I didn't have a real read on anyone, I'd been there for about 15 hands.

[DwayneWayne 0]

By the way, the first post on the thread I posted where I have KJ and I'm playing against me is "You should probably lay it down".We'll see how that one turns out.It's easy to think I don't have any fold equity here when you know how weak my hand is.  I think seeinng it without knowing I'm making a play with J8 it's a lot higher than you might think.

I still think he's stronger then top pair....or would at least hope so...lol

[Smasharoo 0]

I still think he's stronger then top pair....or would at least hope so...lolMaybe. You'd think he'd three-bet the turn here then, no?

[DwayneWayne 0]

I don't think he's 3-betting without a set...JJ or 88.66 and 22 would have to 3 bet that flop with that action.So I thats why I would think he would call the CR and then call your river bet getting like 14-1 on the call.AJ is possible but I would also think AJ bets this flop. KJ too....lolThat's how I would have played it anyway.....

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm off to play live tonight, so here's the rest of the story.I raised, he three bet, I folded, he showed me AK.I suck at poker.Won about a bazillion BB from him later in the night though with set over top two so I didn't feel that about it. I did have to take a smoke break to avoid tilting for a few hands though.

[DwayneWayne 0]

AK....WTF?lol

[Smasharoo 0]

AK....WTF?lolYeah, I know.Damn, I knew I should have capped it!!!

[JFarrell20 1]

I'd probably fold. With all the betting going on I just dont think Jacks with a 9 kicker are good here. If you call and the river card is anything but a jack, fold. Don't even check, just phuckin fold.

[JFarrell20 1]

I'm off to play live tonight, so here's the rest of the story.I raised, he three bet, I folded, he showed me AK.I suck at poker.Won about a bazillion BB from him later in the night though with set over top two so I didn't feel that about it.  I did have to take a smoke break to avoid tilting for a few hands though.

Dude you are so full of crap its not even funny. How many SETS did you make in one night!? Give me a break. Go back to Harvard and open a book.