Thinking Of Writing A Book

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Since I have some time on my hands these days and have wrapped up my first book, I'm thinking of writing another. I want to write one of those breezy reference books on language (like Eats, Shoots and Leaves or Woe is I or Transitive Vampire) about how the internet is changing English. I'm not so interested in the coining of new words like podcast or blog, or even so much the many many acronyms like ROFL. I'm more interested in the way that casual "forum language" is creeping off the screen and into our mouths. For example, I've heard people actually pronounce "teh," as in "She's teh cutest." And I almost never say, "Oh, no" anymore, not when I can say, "Oh, noes!" instead.I'm thinking of calling it "weblish." I've gathered a list of my own, heavily influenced by LOLspeak because I'm a sucker for those cats. But all of you surfing and noticing things together would far outpace just me surfing. So would you chumps dear friends do me a huge favor? Besides offering feedback on the whole idea, if you notice a particular example of web-speak, would you post it here or PM me with it?My list is below. If you would do this, I would lurves me some yous. Srsly.kthxbye,ArlyndaSpeaking WeblishNoob<3lurves me some / wufs me somefailwinepic (maybe more from extreme sports than web)I can has______ in 5,4,3…do not wantOh noesWtfSrslyLol, lolz (esp. as verb, "I loled.")PwnedFTWSTFUWoot-eh endings (kitteh, etc.)Good luck wif dat______ -- I has it______ -- you're doin' it wrong / ur doin it right.I'm n ur ______, ______in' ur ______They be stealin' mah bukkit!kthxbye

[CindyLou 11]

Eats, Shoots and Leaves

I enjoyed that book.The joke too.I will help you if the tone of the book is something to the effect of, "please, for the love of buddha, don't talk like this."Actually, I take that back.I'm probably not going to help you.Because I'm going to scam James D out of his lottery winnings.But don't tell him that.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I enjoyed that book.The joke too.I will help you if the tone of the book is something to the effect of, "please, for the love of buddha, don't talk like this."Actually, I take that back.I'm probably not going to help you.Because I'm going to scam James D out of his lottery winnings.But don't tell him that.

I'm in ur grammar, stealin' ur proper usages.As for scamming James D, good luck with that. But then you won't need to work and can web surf all day, and can help me even more.I'm not sure whether I hate the new language or love it. On the one hand, I do make my living by writing, so bad spelling and grammar are anathema to me. I am saddened by the apparent inability to see the difference between their, there, and they're anymore. At first I thought, "oh, people are just more casual on the web." But then I realized, "Wait a minute, I actually CAN'T make that error. When I'm typing, I know which of the three words I want and I type it. If I spell it wrong, I go back and fix it, but I would never put down the wrong word for the context any more than I would just start using nouns and verbs utterly randomly. People are making this mistake not because they're being casual, but because they genuinely don't know the right way to use the words." Which is depressing -- I mean, if you're not fluent in your own mother tongue, what are you fluent in? I guess some people are fluent in no language at all.But at the same time, this "weblish" is actually rather witty and delightful. Take "fail." One word, and it carries a whole compressed universe of meaning, including a clear note of mocking or disdain. My husband wrote the following haiku:It's the life you've madeFrom the life you were given,So ... STFU.I'm biased, but I think that's a great haiku, weblish and all. And whenever I sleep latest of us (which is often), I thrust my arms in the air and say, "I win sleep!" There's a lot of real wit in this compression and reclaiming of language, and I do appreciate that. After all, you can be dumb and funny, you can be smart and funny, you can be smart and witty, but there's no such thing as dumb and witty. So I don't think these new usages are so much errors as they are a knowing and clever re-working of language, which is a very big deal. Sure, these words of "weblish" will be taken up by the dumb and un-witty, but I don't think they're being created by them. I think this phenomenon is very much a deliberate one of wit. That's why I want to explore it more.

[CindyLou 11]

And whenever I sleep latest of us (which is often), I thrust my arms in the air and say, "I win sleep!" There's a lot of real wit in this compression and reclaiming of language, and I do appreciate that. After all, you can be dumb and funny, you can be smart and funny, you can be smart and witty, but there's no such thing as dumb and witty. So I don't think these new usages are so much errors as they are a knowing and clever re-working of language, which is a very big deal. Sure, these words of "weblish" will be taken up by the dumb and un-witty, but I don't think they're being created by them. I think this phenomenon is very much a deliberate one of wit. That's why I want to explore it more.

Hmm, that's an interesting and well-put response. You should write a...oh, wait.And I actually agree with all this for the most part. I guess my real problem is the part about it being taken up by the dumb and un-witty and beating it to death, but I suppose that's a problem with anything funny.Also, I laughed out loud lol'd at "I win sleep!"

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

On thing I think you're missing is that much of this isn't "webspeak" so much as "text speak", borne out of the necessity of using phone keypads as keyboards for text messages ( in the days before keypads on the phone) and the limited amount of characters you can have on text messages. Much of "webspeak" evolved from texting.

People are making this mistake not because they're being casual, but because they genuinely don't know the right way to use the words."

This is very un buddhist of you. Once you let go of the idea that there's a "right" way to use words, and embrace descriptivism, you will achieve linguistic nirvana. Trying to impose your will and your idea of "correct" on a living language will only lead to suffering.

[WageSlave 0]

On thing I think you're missing is that much of this isn't "webspeak" so much as "text speak", borne out of the necessity of using phone keypads as keyboards for text messages ( in the days before keypads on the phone) and the limited amount of characters you can have on text messages. Much of "webspeak" evolved from texting. This is very un buddhist of you. Once you let go of the idea that there's a "right" way to use words, and embrace descriptivism. Trying to impose your will and your idea of "correct" on a living language will only lead to suffering.

mind. blown. pegged.

[CobaltBlue 662]

You may've been here already, but if not...http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=64784Have you read Bryson's language books by chance? They're a few of my favorites.Also, I'm somewhat moderate when it comes to prescriptivism versus descriptivism. I know when I'm coloring outside of the lines and have reasons for doing so. However, I believe that people should mostly color within the lines until they've demonstrated competence.

[ajs510 122]

Noodz Definition - Sexy pictures and/or naked pictures one takes of themselves to share with others via internet or AIM, sometimes as payment for a favor. Sentence - Send noodz please.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You may've been here already, but if not...http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=64784Have you read Bryson's language books by chance? They're a few of my favorites.Also, I'm somewhat moderate when it comes to prescriptivism versus descriptivism. I know when I'm coloring outside of the lines and have reasons for doing so. However, I believe that people should mostly color within the lines until they've demonstrated competence.

I would describe myself as radically descriptivist. The whole concept of "knowing that I am coloring outside the lines and have reasons to do so" but "most people should color within them until they've demonstrated competence" is entirely missing the point. Everyday, the "incompetent" are obliterating the lines, and they don't know any better at all. And they are changing and evolving the language, every day. That's how languages have always been, they are always in the process of evolving and changing, and people that cling to static rules of language (based on tradition, and nothing else) are missing the point.

[ajs510 122]

Also:GoogleResults 1 - 10 of about 54,500 for weblish. (0.22 seconds)Oh noes! Yer titlez is teh takenz.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I have been there, and thank you for reminding me of it. It's a great resource. The only problem with it is that I don't always know whether something is fairly FCP-specific or whether it's widely in use on the web. Obv, the poker stuff is specific, but I had to ask my husband if he knew what FTW meant. He did, but conceded that a lot of people wouldn't, at least not immediately, whereas LOL is now universal.I agree about language, and life in general: know the rules before you break them. Be able to write well so that when you lapse into weblish people don't just think you're an idiot.Quite a lot of web-speak really delights me, though. My standard cover letter for jobs says, "I use language both as a tool and as a toy." I take genuine pleasure in seeing language used cleverly. A good turn of phrase can make my day, which was how I started noticing the phenomenon of how the web was changing language.But no one has submitted any delightful new web-speak to me yet, soWHH-CHHHHH <sound of whip cracking>Get to work, minions! You, Cobalt, get a pass because at least you directed me to the FCP-speak thread. I haven't read Bryson on language, but I did read his book on hiking the Appalachian Trail, which was delightful.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Noodz Definition - Sexy pictures and/or naked pictures one takes of themselves to share with others via internet or AIM, sometimes as payment for a favor. Sentence - Send noodz please.

Yayz for ajs510!!!!!

[James D 0]

Southern Buddhist really is quite something, I have to say.

[ajs510 122]

Noodz for ajs510!!!!!

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I agree about language, and life in general: know the rules before you break them. Be able to write well so that when you lapse into weblish people don't just think you're an idiot.

This isn't very buddhist either. You think the buddha cared if society thought he was an idiot when he fled his palace to sit under a bodhi tree?

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Yayz Noodz for ajs510!!!!!

This isn't very buddhist either. You think the buddha cared if society thought he was an idiot when he fled his palace to sit under a bodhi tree?

No, he didn't. I admire good writing because I admire mastery in anything, but I accept that the nature of language is to change, so I do imagine that what was mastery back in my day is irrelevant and empty of meaning.

[ajs510 122]

Clever, I like clever. Nice work. <grin>

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

No, he didn't. I admire good writing because I admire mastery in anything, but I accept that the nature of language is to change, so I do imagine that what was mastery back in my day is irrelevant and empty of meaning.

Seems like a desire trap to me.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I would describe myself as radically descriptivist. The whole concept of "knowing that I am coloring outside the lines and have reasons to do so" but "most people should color within them until they've demonstrated competence" is entirely missing the point. Everyday, the "incompetent" are obliterating the lines, and they don't know any better at all. And they are changing and evolving the language, every day. That's how languages have always been, they are always in the process of evolving and changing, and people that cling to static rules of language (based on tradition, and nothing else) are missing the point.

I'm not opposed to the evolution of language. I love the fact that English is huge, moving, and accepting. The point isn't to stick to rules for the sake of tradition. The point is to have a common ground for communication and expression. I really wouldn't call the post that you wrote "radically descriptivist". You used plenty of punctuation to relay your message more clearly.Also, if I were opposed to descriptivism, would I really have created a glossary to highlight some of the ways that people are evolving the language?I just think that it's stupid when people spell 'ridiculous' as 'rediculous' or 'ludicrous' as 'ludacris' or 'definitely' in a myriad of ways, because it shows linguistic laziness and ignorance of etymology. When they're misspelling those words, it's not for enrichment of the language or positive, understanding purpose. I think it's absolutely wonderful to "color outside of the lines" when there's purpose. For example, it's like when someone states something as fact that's an obvious twist on the truth (a clever lie), but you know it's a lie, and you know that they know it's a lie. It allows you to share in this deeper ironic humor that flies over the head of most people. There's beauty there.SB, "A Walk In the Woods" is a very good book in his travelogue catalog. His language books (in order of recommendation) are: Mother Tongue (English & How It Got That Way), Made in America, and Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words. I'm currently re-reading the first for the third time.

[LadyGrey 6]

Hey buddhist, want to proof read a paper for me? I don't need you to comment on my arguments as you probably won't have read the book (it's a book review) but it would be cool if you could check the spelling and grammar for me. I have proofread it but I've never done a book review before so I would like some reassurance. p.s. you can say no

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm not opposed to the evolution of language. I love the fact that English is huge, moving, and accepting. The point isn't to stick to rules for the sake of tradition. The point is to have a common ground for communication and expression. I really wouldn't call the post that you wrote "radically descriptivist". You used plenty of punctuation to relay your message more clearly.Also, if I were opposed to descriptivism, would I really have created a glossary to highlight some of the ways that people are evolving the language?

Being "radically descriptivist" doesn't mean that I'm an anarchist in my grammar and usage, but it means that I 100 percent support descriptivism in the study and analysis of language. When talking about the "rules" of a language, we should talk about what they are, not what a bunch of scholars say they should be.

I just think that it's stupid when people spell 'ridiculous' as 'rediculous' or 'ludicrous' as 'ludacris' or 'definitely' in a myriad of ways, because it shows linguistic laziness and ignorance of etymology. When they're misspelling those words, it's not for enrichment of the language or positive, understanding purpose.

See, and this is what, in my opinion, makes you a prescriptivist. I believe that it doesn't matter if someone spells rediculous or ludacris. It's the concepts that people are trying to communicate that matter, not the aesthetics of the communication. People, all the time flip out about something like the usage of penultimate. The traditional meaning of it is, of course, next to last. But the modern usage of it has become something like "even more fcking ultimate than ultimate" and people freak out about it, and act superior to the people that are "incorrectly" using the word. Well, I guess I feel that if so many more people are using Penultimate to mean "even more kick ass than ultimate" than that's what it means ( or at least, is one of it's meanings), for all practical purposes. Descriptivism is about describing the way language is, they way it is used, not to make judgments at the way it "should be" used. Because the "Should" is irrelevant.

[James D 0]

This thread is penultimate.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

This thread is penultimate.

Isn't it ironic.. don't you think?, David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest played a great deal to do with it, as one of the minor characters in the book was ( literally) a militant prescriptivist ( to the point of terrorism). That character's commitment to prescription was so absurd, that it really got me thinking about the issue for the first time, and how rediculous it was.I'd taken a descriptive linguistics course in college, and it seemed like a far more useful and logical way to analyze language. It's Ironic ( in the best possible sense) that infinite jest would lead me to this place, because DFW was an extremely anal prescriptivist ( as witness'd by a dictionary review of his I once read) In truth, however, a great deal of my aversion to prescriptivism is borne from my own wretched spelling and penchant for typing errors. I feel like I've been polarized a bit into the descpitivist position, after taking on so many attacks when first I started posting on message boards. This was before I had firefox ( and it's spell check) and would make many more errors than I do now ( though I still make plenty), and I would make well thought out, well articulated arguments, who's content anal twats would ignore, but instead would they would dismiss me and my posts, and affect an air of intellectual superiority, just because I'd used Their/there/they're incorrectly or some other thing. They would Focus completely on an irrelevancy, rather than the point and the content of my posts. It would drive me bat shit, and I found it to be extremely petty and Illogical. And I felt it went against the the whole goal of language, which is to communicate ideas. It's the ideas that matter, in my opinion, that the form of their communication.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

chirst, I've gone off again about descriptivism/prescriptivism, and I'm not even stoned this time as an excuse. I wish I had a shock collar to give someone to shock me when ever I start to do this. Because when I go over what I've written, I think to myself, "jesus christ, McGee, you're a boring cunt," I could use a little negative re-enforcement to break me of this habit.

[CobaltBlue 662]

People, all the time flip out about something like the usage of penultimate. The traditional meaning of it is, of course, next to last. But the modern usage of it has become something like "even more fcking ultimate than ultimate" and people freak out about it, and act superior to the people that are "incorrectly" using the word. Well, I guess I feel that if so many more people are using Penultimate to mean "even more kick ass than ultimate" than that's what it means ( or at least, is one of it's meanings), for all practical purposes.

I don't mind that use of 'penultimate' at all. I also don't mind 'irregardless'. And, I employ 'decimate' in the non-historic sense. I'm fine with 'ain't' and 'y'all'.I think I mentioned it in the LHE thread, but someone the other day wrote "peddle to the meddle". I know what they're going for, but they've disconnected from the metaphor/cliche to the point where the phrase no longer makes sense. Also, when a moving company has a sign that says, 'We "Literally" Roll Out The Red Carpet', I think it's moronic...because they're not communicating what they're intending.