First Omaha Tourney

[TrueFX 0]

I have played some 02/05 Omaha here and there and decided to play my first Omaha Tourney yesterday.There were 126 entries with 18 places paid. We were down to 25 players when the following hand came up :Table '135873842 5' 9-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: TrueFX (4108 in chips) Seat 2: funkyc (9412 in chips) Seat 3: tbalz2002 (3200 in chips) Seat 4: Steviee (2440 in chips) Seat 5: damchiefs (4065 in chips) Seat 6: Col. Frobin (7580 in chips) Seat 8: platos (3717 in chips) Seat 9: paullyy2j (12960 in chips) funkyc: posts small blind 125tbalz2002: posts big blind 250*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to TrueFX [ ]Steviee: folds damchiefs: folds Col. Frobin: folds platos: calls 250paullyy2j: folds TrueFX: raises 500 to 750funkyc: calls 625tbalz2002: calls 500platos: calls 500*** FLOP *** []funkyc: checks tbalz2002: checks platos: bets 250TrueFX: raises 3108 to 3358 and is all-infunkyc: folds tbalz2002: folds platos: calls 2717 and is all-inUncalled bet (391) returned to TrueFX*** TURN *** [ ] [ ]*** RIVER *** [ ] []*** SHOW DOWN ***platos: shows [ ] (a flush, Ace high)TrueFX: shows [ ] (a flush, King high)platos collected 8934 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 8934 | Rake 0 Board [ ]Seat 1: TrueFX (button) showed [ ] and lost with a flush, King highSeat 2: funkyc (small blind) folded on the FlopSeat 3: tbalz2002 (big blind) folded on the FlopSeat 4: Steviee folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: damchiefs folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: Col. Frobin folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 8: platos showed [ ] and won (8934) with a flush, Ace highSeat 9: paullyy2j folded before Flop (didn't bet)I initially raised on the button because people had been playing tight due to the bubble. I felt like a pocket pair and suited connectors were a decent hand for this spot. I got three callers. The blinds and a limper.I hit my set on the flop and had the second nut flush draw. All in all I felt it was a strong hand. The blinds checked and the limper minbet. Did I make the right move by going all in? Was I a dog to his AA and nut flush draw? Do I need more than a set / flush draw to push this close to the bubble?Any advice would be greatly appreciated.Thanks!

[SwolyswoND 1]

Fold PF, and it's not even close. Trying to steal in PLO is a bad, bad, bad, bad, terrabad idea. As played, its a cooler, and BBFIDTS. But seriously, for the love of God, fold PF.

[simo_8ball 0]

^^That.

[TrueFX 0]

Thanks for the replies.I learned a lot from the both of you.You are both great assets to the community. Keep up the good work.

[revhq2646 0]

Thanks for the replies.I learned a lot from the both of you.You are both great assets to the community. Keep up the good work.

You raise pre-flop in early position and get 3 callers as the tourney nears the bubble. My guess is that you have the table image that screams, "I play WAY too many pots and can't get away from anything ". That is harsher than I mean to be, but how many hands did you play in the previous 2 orbits? How many times did you push after the flop in those two orbits? Your hand selection, and post flop analysis indicate you don't have a good sense for what is a strong hand in Omaha. Omaha is a game of the nuts. They don't happen every hand, but they happen often enough that the best way to counter aggression is to just wait for the nuts and let the second best hand bet into you. KQs22 is a hand that will draw to the second best hand way too often. In omaha, Set over Set happens all the time and set of twos, while often a winner, is probably behind if it gets any callers on the flop. A K high flush will loose to an A high flush fairly often. Why push on the Flop? What hands can call that bet that you can beat? The only hands that are calling you are 88, 55, AxS. So if you make a $1,000 bet and get any callers you need to shut it down, but it really goes back to not playing this type of hand in the first place, and especially not in early position, where you can get snapped like a twig.

[SwolyswoND 1]

Thanks for the replies.I learned a lot from the both of you.You are both great assets to the community. Keep up the good work.

Actually, simo is one of the most respected posters on this board, but don't let that get in the way of your little rant.You asked for help about your hand, which, without being too harsh, was awful. There really isn't any other comment people can make about the hand, because it's not one you should ever, ever be playing. And like I said, once you get to the flop, you're never folding, it's a cooler, and there was no more strategy involved.Pray tell, what more did you want people to say?

[simo_8ball 0]

22 is horrible in PLO, and this is a situation where you have 16bb. By raising 3bb you aren't likely to win the pot preflop. People find excuses to play bad hands in PLO, and you're very likely to see a flop here.It seems you have a NLHE mentality in the way you're explaining the hand "a pocket pair and suited connectors". This is not the mindset to have. Ok, you have KQs and 22, but you also have Q2o twice and K2o twice. So, while KQ22 might look promising, you only have 2 'hands'.That's why hands like Ts9s8c7c are so powerful. You have T9, T8, T7, 98, 97 and 87. That's 6 'hands'. 6 different 2 card combinations that can realistically flop something. Plus, when you flop something with T987 you will almost always have some backup. With two pair you will have a straight draw, or with one pair you'll often have a wrap. With KQ22 you have to flop perfectly to really love the flop. Bottom set isn't great, top two isn't great, K high flush draw isn't great.Plus, given that you're going to be looking at a flop quite often, assuming just one caller the pot will be >$2k and you'll have like $3.4k left. If you catch any kind of a piece of the flop you will be forced to put the money in (you can't realistically bet/fold with top pair, a set or a draw).Your simple blind steal is actually very likely to end up with you allin postflop with a weak hand.Obviously, when you actually catch your dream flop (bottom set and second nut flush draw) you are never folding, especially when you have only a little more than pot left.I didn't think this thread needed this level of analysis though. KQ22 is a bad hand which should be folded preflop every time, but once you got the best flop you could hope for, it's an easy shove.

[TrueFX 0]

Thanks for the new responses. That is exactly what I needed. As I mentioned in my post, I am very new to Omaha and wasn't sure how to play the hand.One note, I was actually on the button when I raised the blinds and the limper. I don't think my image was anything out of the ordinary as I hadn't seen more than 4 flops when not in the blind.You are correct in your assumption that my thought process follows that of a NLHE player as that is my main game. I think I place too much importance on the wrong types of hands and not enough on the others.During the tournament I had the hand, . As hard as it was to do, I folded this pre-flop. I told myself that I had absolutely no chance of going to showdown with anything but a pair of Aces. Was that the correct analysis?Thanks again!

[SwolyswoND 1]

For that trip aces hand, we need to know more info. What was your PF position? Was it folded to you, were there limpers, was there a raise? It's not automatically a fold - AA is technically favored over all other hands PF still, it just becomes extremely difficult to play postflop unless you hit a set. You usually dont extract much value out of AA hands unless you get it all in PF.

[nosoul 0]

The trip aces hand is one you throw away preflop unless you think you can steal the pot when a raggedy flop comes. You have all but one of the aces, so if a flush draw hits on the flop, you might be able to represent the nut flush and steal the pot. The odds of making a real hand out of it is practically zero. You only have 1 out to hit a set and none of your aces is paired with your 4th card so you can't hit a flush. Realistically, the best hand you can make is a pair of aces which rarely holds up in Omaha.

[SwolyswoND 1]

The trip aces hand is one you throw away preflop unless you think you can steal the pot when a raggedy flop comes. You have all but one of the aces, so if a flush draw hits on the flop, you might be able to represent the nut flush and steal the pot. The odds of making a real hand out of it is practically zero. You only have 1 out to hit a set and none of your aces is paired with your 4th card so you can't hit a flush. Realistically, the best hand you can make is a pair of aces which rarely holds up in Omaha.

If we could get all-in preflop with it, it's technically still favored over every other possible hand. So depending on tourney position, etc, if we can get it AIPF with AAAx, then we do it. If we'd have to play postflop with it, then it gets a lot trickier.

[Frez 0]

If we could get all-in preflop with it, it's technically still favored over every other possible hand.

No. Not to mention how hard it is to get it all in PF in a PL game, and if you could, you'd find yourself up against a hand like one fo these:pokenum -mc 500000 -o ac as ad 6h - js th 9s 8h Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV:as 234410 46.88 265590 53.12 0 0.00 0.469 265590 53.12 234410 46.88 0 0.00 0.531pokenum -mc 500000 -o ac as ad 6h - 9d 8h 8d 9h Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV:as 234296 46.86 265704 53.14 0 0.00 0.469 265704 53.14 234296 46.86 0 0.00 0.531pokenum -mc 500000 -o ac as ad 6h - js qs jd qd Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boardscards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV:as 244852 48.97 255148 51.03 0 0.00 0.490 255148 51.03 244852 48.97 0 0.00 0.510And of course multi-way you'd be screwed.

[gameraidbet 0]

Don't hit your site\(^o^)/~Whether or not to continue hand, powers at yourself