To The Bush Haters

[Sheiky 0]

Has anyone mentioned that alternative energy is not just to stop global warming?

[vbnautilus 48]

Don't forget that the books would need to be filled with fullfilled prophecies, and have the authority of the God of the Universe behind it.

Well prophesy is just another word for prediction, and a good scientific theory makes predictions that can be verified, so we're set with that one.As for the other one, apparently the only way one knows that the book has the authority of god is that it is written in the text, so we could just add that in for no extra charge.

[brvheart 1,752]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...id=aIe9swvOqwIY

[grocery_mony 8]

waxed>shaved>bush

[Southern Buddhist 1]

I also believe that there is a certain amount of selection bias, in that programs that look for global warming are way, way more likely to be funded than programs that look to debunk it.

I must reiterate (but I'm not putting you on the spot to produce evidence unless you happen to have seen some), this accusation/assumption has been repeated a lot, but I've never seen a shred of evidence to back it up. There are some really, really large right-wing foundations (Smith Richardson, Koch, DeMoss, and the foundations that underwrite the existence of both the Cato Institute and the Heritage Foundation) who would certainly fund debunking studies, not to mention industry funding, which is already present in most of the debunkers' pasts. There are also a lot of left-leaning foundations. It's hard to say if they cancel each other out -- mostly they're both dwarfed by non-political foundations. I've not only written a lot of grant applications, I've also sat in on judging panels and been on panels myself, giving out the money, and of course I try to keep up on foundation news. I've never seen a study showing the existence of any kind of selection bias, other than the foundation's own publicly stated mission and guidelines (and only an idiot would apply for funding to a foundation whose mission is diametrically opposed to what he wants to study).

[KramitDaToad 0]

Don't forget that the books would need to be filled with failed prophecies, and make ridiculous claims about having the authority of the invisible sky man of the Universe behind it.

FYP

[Zeatrix 0]

Don't forget that the books would need to be filled with fullfilled prophecies, and have the authority of the God of the Universe behind it.

they've fullfilled? Must have been this morning when I went to the bathroom.

[timwakefield 68]

they've fullfilled? Must have been this morning when I went to the bathroom.

Wait, so that means......I've been left behind!!???? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Zeatrix 0]

Has anyone mentioned that alternative energy is not just to stop global warming?

No, because anything that isn't status quo is BAD!

[Southern Buddhist 1]

(For example, about 10 years ago economists determined that, on average, Americans valued their own life at about 7 million dollars, based on the amount they were willing to spend to protect it from all of life's threats).

This sentence has been coming back to mind off and on for days now. Nobody seemed to notice it. That's an astonishing amount, and I'm not at all sure that I value my own life that much. But what bothered me is that most of this nation claims to be Christian; that is, claims to follow a guy who said "love thy neighbor as thyself." How many of those same Christians, do you think, value the life of an African or an Iraqi at seven million dollars? Or even their closer neighbors, for that matter? How many value the life of a liberal at that value? Or the life of a homeless American?

[Balloon guy 158]

This sentence has been coming back to mind off and on for days now. Nobody seemed to notice it. That's an astonishing amount, and I'm not at all sure that I value my own life that much. But what bothered me is that most of this nation claims to be Christian; that is, claims to follow a guy who said "love thy neighbor as thyself." How many of those same Christians, do you think, value the life of an African or an Iraqi at seven million dollars? Or even their closer neighbors, for that matter? How many value the life of a liberal at that value? Or the life of a homeless American?

Although it's fun to place our thoughts above the masses as we see ourselves thinking that all life is valuable. The fact is we accept that the speed limit is the safest, not becuase nobody dies, but 'fewer' people die. That doubling the budget of the police to have twice as many cops isn't worth the cost, so therefore we will have less police protection, and that we will spend enough to have fire stations within 5 minutes of any house, but not double the cost so that they are 2 minutes away.We place values on life all day everyday, we just ignore that we do it.

[Southern Buddhist 1]

Although it's fun to place our thoughts above the masses as we see ourselves thinking that all life is valuable. The fact is we accept that the speed limit is the safest, not becuase nobody dies, but 'fewer' people die. That doubling the budget of the police to have twice as many cops isn't worth the cost, so therefore we will have less police protection, and that we will spend enough to have fire stations within 5 minutes of any house, but not double the cost so that they are 2 minutes away.We place values on life all day everyday, we just ignore that we do it.

Very good answer, but the valuation of life isn't exactly what troubles me. I'm asking if the order from your savior to value other lives equally to your own is carried through in your political beliefs.And I'm not just asking it of Republicans but of anyone who considers themselves led by that Christian doctrine. I'm trying to imagine what it would mean to really live as though that mattered, what kind of world and what kind of government we would have.Or do you think he meant, "have some squishy kind of emotional "luv" for them, but don't actually express that in any concrete way that might cost you money or comfort"?

[Zealous Donkey 0]

This sentence has been coming back to mind off and on for days now. Nobody seemed to notice it. That's an astonishing amount, and I'm not at all sure that I value my own life that much. But what bothered me is that most of this nation claims to be Christian; that is, claims to follow a guy who said "love thy neighbor as thyself." How many of those same Christians, do you think, value the life of an African or an Iraqi at seven million dollars? Or even their closer neighbors, for that matter? How many value the life of a liberal at that value? Or the life of a homeless American?

Some, no, quite a lot of Christians actually go over and help in a variety of ways. This may not be enough but they certainly do more than the UN or African Union. You will find Catholic Charities in about every corner of the earth. They are there feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and helping the sick and dying. Many risk their lives year after year to do this and several have lost their lives. To answer your question, I think the United States values all human life more than any other country in the world.

[hblask 1]

Very good answer, but the valuation of life isn't exactly what troubles me. I'm asking if the order from your savior to value other lives equally to your own is carried through in your political beliefs.And I'm not just asking it of Republicans but of anyone who considers themselves led by that Christian doctrine. I'm trying to imagine what it would mean to really live as though that mattered, what kind of world and what kind of government we would have.Or do you think he meant, "have some squishy kind of emotional "luv" for them, but don't actually express that in any concrete way that might cost you money or comfort"?

I think people value the lives of those closest to them the most -- themselves first (in most cases, but parents are probably a notable exception), their families, their extended families, their close friends.... I don't think there is any sharp cutoffs, just a graduated scale of how much we value others -- not in the moral or philosophical sense, but in the nuts-and-bolts this-is-what-I'll-spend-money-on sense. Philosophically, I know all lives are equally valuable. Practically, if I had to run you over to save my kids life, I wouldn't have to think a second on it.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

To answer your question, I think the United States values all human life more than any other country in the world.

Do you really think that you can make that claim for a country that has the death penalty.Do you really think that you can make that claim for any Superpower that for geopolitical reasons often finds themselves in situations where the military or other organs of the state are killing people.Do you really think you can make that claim for a country that is way behind most other industrialized countries in the amount of foreign aid that they provide as a percentage of their GDP and most of the government provided aid goes to Isreal, Egypt and other places for political and not humanitarian reasons.Really, I love Americans and the US is my fav country outside of my own but it's pretty ridiculous when Americans jump on the good old the US is the greatest country in the World at everything bandwagon.

[Balloon guy 158]

Do you really think that you can make that claim for a country that has the death penalty.

When the death penalty is applied to people who kill others...yes I think it is totally constant with a country that believes in the value of life

Do you really think that you can make that claim for any Superpower that for geopolitical reasons often finds themselves in situations where the military or other organs of the state are killing people.

When the world decides to play chess to settle problems than we will whip them at that, until then the world dictates it's own demise. Don't blame us for being good at killing people.No one wants to send in troops, but what other way do you stop people with guns from killing other people other than shooting them?

Do you really think you can make that claim for a country that is way behind most other industrialized countries in the amount of foreign aid that they provide as a percentage of their GDP and most of the government provided aid goes to Isreal, Egypt and other places for political and not humanitarian reasons.

I would gladly compare the amount of help we give the world to any 3 nations you want to claim. When giving to God, the amount is secondary to the heart; in the world, the amount trumps the motive.

Really, I love Americans and the US is my fav country outside of my own but it's pretty ridiculous when Americans jump on the good old the US is the greatest country in the World at everything bandwagon.

But we are pretty great...I mean basketball..we have the world champions EVERY year, and football too.

[Balloon guy 158]

Some, no, quite a lot of Christians actually go over and help in a variety of ways. This may not be enough but they certainly do more than the UN or African Union. You will find Catholic Charities in about every corner of the earth. They are there feeding the poor, clothing the naked, and helping the sick and dying. Many risk their lives year after year to do this and several have lost their lives. To answer your question, I think the United States values all human life more than any other country in the world.

We also are the leader in 'countries that kick your butt in a war, then help you rebuild and give everything back to you'.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Do you really think that you can make that claim for a country that has the death penalty.Do you really think that you can make that claim for any Superpower that for geopolitical reasons often finds themselves in situations where the military or other organs of the state are killing people.Do you really think you can make that claim for a country that is way behind most other industrialized countries in the amount of foreign aid that they provide as a percentage of their GDP and most of the government provided aid goes to Israel, Egypt and other places for political and not humanitarian reasons.Really, I love Americans and the US is my fav country outside of my own but it's pretty ridiculous when Americans jump on the good old the US is the greatest country in the World at everything bandwagon.

I am not saying we are perfect, we could fill up several pages if we listed everything wrong with this country. But I am not going to be lectured on how the US doesn't value human life. And then, to add insult to injury, have to listen to how Christians don't value human life. We do the dirty jobs no one else wants to do. Yes we are always accused at having ulterior motives for doing what we do. I have no doubt there is some truth to that, but who was it that stood up to communism and held the Soviet Union and then turned them back? Who freed the Iraqis' from Saddam? Canada? You Lt. Weinberg?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I am not saying we are perfect, we could fill up several pages if we listed everything wrong with this country. But I am not going to be lectured on how the US doesn't value human life. And then, to add insult to injury, have to listen to how Christians don't value human life. We do the dirty jobs no one else wants to do. Yes we are always accused at having ulterior motives for doing what we do. I have no doubt there is some truth to that, but who was it that stood up to communism and held the Soviet Union and then turned them back? Who freed the Iraqis' from Saddam? Canada? You Lt. Weinberg?

Of course the US and Americans value human life, but for you to say that as a nation you value it more than every other country in the World is just really stupid and I pointed out a few of the ways that the US as a nation is going to fail in comparison to many other countries when it comes to valuing life.Nowhere did I say anything about Christians and the charitable acts that many Christians perform Worldwide. But why would you make a point about Christians and then extrapolate from that point that the US is #1. What about the non-American Christians doing good works around the World.My main point is that Americans need to just stop with the silly "The US is the greatest ( fill in the blank ) in the World " and just make your point a qualitative one instead of the silly USA USA USA aspects of many of these sort of things because to the rest of the World when you make those sort of statements you will often come across as somebody who has no clue.

[KramitDaToad 0]

I would gladly compare the amount of help we give the world to any 3 nations you want to claim.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/charity.html#2

The United Nations Human Development Report (2005) examines the state of the world, and devotes time to studying the giving of aid to poor countries. It doesn't include aid distributed internally from rich countries to themselves, which biases the survey against European welfare states who tend to devote a lot of time and money on the poor (including immigrants) in their own countries.The chart [above] shows the amount of aid given to developing countries. It is shown as percent of the Gross National Income, so it includes both aid given by corporations and by individuals. The Report notes how the countries of the G7 - the richest industrial countries - dominate the global aid flow. It also notes how the most generous five countries, all above the UN's target of 0.7% GNI, are all small countries - Norway, Luxembourg, Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands who have all "consistently met or surpassed the UN target". Japan has only recently fallen to such a low position (third from the bottom), nearly as stingy as the USA.The United Nations Report analyses how to make aid-giving worthwhile and usable and does not just concentrate on quantity of aid. There are factors which reduce the usability of aid, including corruption and unpredictability of aid quantities. Yet, "perhaps the most egregious undermining of efficient aid is the practice of tying financial transfers to the purchase of services and goods from the donating countries." This kind of "tied" aid is selfish and counterproductive.The most generous countries are also the ones that do not tend to tie aid to their own products and services. The stingiest countries also, almost spitefully and nastily, force countries to buy their own services and products with the aid they give; which reduces free trade and commerce and harms the countries economy, as well as being simply selfish and conceited. Thankfully, many countries do not tie their aid. Countries that tie less than 10% of aid include Ireland, Norway and the UK, then Belgium, Finland, Switzerland and Sweden. The USA is the worst, and ties nearly 90% of its aid to developing countries. Italy is the second worst with 70%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4785813.stm

And although the US gave more money than anywhere else, its donation was the smallest of the 21 states in relation to the size of its economy.Much of the US's aid, the CGD added, was contingent on the purchase of US goods, and so was in fact a "backdoor subsidy for American interests".

[akoff 0]

http://www.vexen.co.uk/countries/charity.html#2http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4785813.stm

lets talk about $$ both sent over seas by our governemnt and personal choice...the conversation will be short and sweet. Percentages are what you make of them...business people no this and we use them to our adavantage everyday...if possible. I would certainly take 10 percent of million over 20 percent of 250k...but you stick with the graphs.

[Loismustdie 0]

Of course the US and Americans value human life, but for you to say that as a nation you value it more than every other country in the World is just really stupid and I pointed out a few of the ways that the US as a nation is going to fail in comparison to many other countries when it comes to valuing life.Nowhere did I say anything about Christians and the charitable acts that many Christians perform Worldwide. But why would you make a point about Christians and then extrapolate from that point that the US is #1. What about the non-American Christians doing good works around the World.My main point is that Americans need to just stop with the silly "The US is the greatest ( fill in the blank ) in the World " and just make your point a qualitative one instead of the silly USA USA USA aspects of many of these sort of things because to the rest of the World when you make those sort of statements you will often come across as somebody who has no clue.

Find a nation who values life more by it's actions and policies and the goodwill of it's people and you have an argument. Until then, this is just grousing about how you don't like people who think America is the best at something.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

Find a nation who values life more by it's actions and policies and the goodwill of it's people and you have an argument. Until then, this is just grousing about how you don't like people who think America is the best at something.

Okay, I'll give you one.SwedenThey don't kill their own people with the death penalty, they don't kill people in other countries for geopolitical reasons ( not that there aren't legitimate reasons for countries to do this at times ), they don't allow any of their own citizens to go without basic healthcare and they as a nation give more money in International Aid on a per-capita and percentage of national wealth basis than pretty much any other nation.You see my problem is this stupid sort of comparison.The reality is that it's much easier for smaller nations to have policies that are friendlier to life than a Superpower like the US. Sometimes being a Superpower is messy and people will die. You embrace the market and sometimes the market is messy and the disenfranchised will fall by the wayside. This is why a nanny state like Sweden is going to care for those people more than a country like the US.If you want to make a claim that the average middle class and above American gives more to charity than people from other countries in the same socio-economic situation that is a point that is probably true and can be defended. Making a statement that the United States cares more about life than any other country in the World is truly stupid.

[Zealous Donkey 0]

Of course the US and Americans value human life, but for you to say that as a nation you value it more than every other country in the World is just really stupid and I pointed out a few of the ways that the US as a nation is going to fail in comparison to many other countries when it comes to valuing life.Nowhere did I say anything about Christians and the charitable acts that many Christians perform Worldwide. But why would you make a point about Christians and then extrapolate from that point that the US is #1. What about the non-American Christians doing good works around the World.My main point is that Americans need to just stop with the silly "The US is the greatest ( fill in the blank ) in the World " and just make your point a qualitative one instead of the silly USA USA USA aspects of many of these sort of things because to the rest of the World when you make those sort of statements you will often come across as somebody who has no clue.

I already admitted the USA is far from perfect. For you to characterize my post as nationalistic cheer leading is a misrepresentation.I was responding to a post by SB who was implying American Christians don't value human life in comparison to other nations and that is absolute BS.I notice you didn't criticize the SB post or call it stupid. My main point is that the rest of the world need to STFU with the anti-American rhetoric or pick up a weapon and stand a post.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I already admitted the USA is far from perfect. For you to characterize my post as nationalistic cheer leading is a misrepresentation.I was responding to a post by SB who was implying American Christians don't value human life in comparison to other nations and that is absolute BS.I notice you didn't criticize the SB post or call it stupid. My main point is that the rest of the world need to STFU with the anti-American rhetoric or pick up a weapon and stand a post.

SB's post was an American questioning whether a lot of the political actions of Christian Americans are consistent with some of the love thy neighbour teachings that most Christians believe in. Where you are getting anti-American rhetoric from is beyond me.Her points weren't stupid and your answers to her weren't stupid except for your statement that the US cares more about life than any other nation in the World. It was that statement which got me going for the reasons that I've posted about above.