The Overpair Facing Checkraise On Flop Dilemma

[AKProdigy 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG ($50)Hero ($50)Button ($37.35)SB ($46.35)BB ($52.45)Preflop: Hero is MP with J , J . 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.Flop: ($4.25) 3 , 9 , 3 (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $3, BB raises to $8.5, Hero ?No reads.Basically any decent sized raise commits me, folding is too weak, calling makes me feel dirty. Standard play is?

[CobaltBlue 662]

Basically any decent sized raise commits me, folding is too weak, calling makes me feel dirty. Standard play is?

...why? It's decently standard to call here and get it in on the turn. We're probably WA/WB...and likely WA. If he's going to outdraw us, he only has 5-6 outs.

[Money022 0]

I think this is often a move to pick off c-bets on low boards with the villian hoping you're on unpaired overs. Instead of calling and looking to get it in on the turn I would reraise to $20. If he comes over the top then you can conclude you've been outflopped.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I think this is often a move to pick off c-bets on low boards with the villian hoping you're on unpaired overs.

...so why do you want to raise? If we didn't have value, sure...let's go for the rebluff...but raising to pick off his bluff when we've likely got him well-beat...I don't understand. And putting in $20 to fold isn't a very good idea...villains do crazy things...he could have TT/x9.

[rdtedm 0]

I think this is often a move to pick off c-bets on low boards with the villian hoping you're on unpaired overs. Instead of calling and looking to get it in on the turn I would reraise to $20. If he comes over the top then you can conclude you've been outflopped.

I had this problem until recently.3 betting the flop is bad if you think he's bluffing. We want to get it in if he's bluffing, and that won't happen if we 3bet the flop. Call, and let him bet turn. If we 3bet flop, only hands that have us beat are likely to continue. If we wait til the turn, we can profit from the time he is bluffing. If we get it in on the flop, we either lose value or are beat.

[jmbreslin 0]

I had this problem until recently.3 betting the flop is bad if you think he's bluffing. We want to get it in if he's bluffing, and that won't happen if we 3bet the flop. Call, and let him bet turn. If we 3bet flop, only hands that have us beat are likely to continue. If we wait til the turn, we can profit from the time he is bluffing. If we get it in on the flop, we either lose value or are beat.

Sounds like a great strategy...assuming he's bluffing. But if he leads into Hero on the turn, how do you know whether he's continuing the bluff or has a legit hand that beats Hero? Absent a read I'm not sure why getting it all in should be the objective here.

[Money022 0]

Sounds like a great strategy...assuming he's bluffing. But if he leads into Hero on the turn, how do you know whether he's continuing the bluff or has a legit hand that beats Hero? Absent a read I'm not sure why getting it all in should be the objective here.

I guess that's my delima with just calling as well. The majority of the time you're facing an opening bet from the villian on the turn and you have no added information. The only way to pick off the bluff at this point is to call it down which likely costs you your full stack. My suggestion of reraising only costs half your stack. Flawed thinking???

[rdtedm 0]

Sounds like a great strategy...assuming he's bluffing. But if he leads into Hero on the turn, how do you know whether he's continuing the bluff or has a legit hand that beats Hero? Absent a read I'm not sure why getting it all in should be the objective here.

Because we're not going to fold JJ on this board? Does he c/r 99 here? About the only hand I see that has us beat is A3s. IMO this is a hand like 9-10s, J-9s, or a pair between 3 and 9. This line is taken sooo incredible often by low pairs that put us on a big ace or broadway cards.

[IAGTTAYM 0]

100bb deep, I don't think I'd ever 3-bet this flop with anything in my range (Unless BB is felting 22 over a 3-bet...). So with that said I'd probably call with JJ in this situation and get it in on the turn.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Sounds like a great strategy...assuming he's capable of bluffing.

Note the big difference here.He's repping a 3 (wtf), A-9, an underpair, or a very unlikely OOP slowplayed overpair.Basically you have a really strong hand in this spot, and 3-betting will shut out every hand you beat. Let him drive. And we're trying to get it in on the turn. Basically, we just don't want to see an ace hit.

[Snamuh 0]

I guess that's my delima with just calling as well. The majority of the time you're facing an opening bet from the villian on the turn and you have no added information. The only way to pick off the bluff at this point is to call it down which likely costs you your full stack. My suggestion of reraising only costs half your stack. Flawed thinking???

Extremely flawed. Raising for information is just awful in poker. It's just so flawed. Calling down is definitely the best line. When you reraise, you turn your hand into a bluff. Instead you can call, and then let him bluff off more chips on the turn and possibly river. If you feel he would never bluff both turn and river, you can safely fold river, though I wouldn't. It just sounds like you are scared to really play postflop and make challenging decisions on later streets.Essentially when you raise the flop for information, it is because you are too scared to play on the turn and river when cards come off that put you in a spot where you don't know what to do.

[mln_falcon 0]

Flawed thinking???

Was going to respond but Snamuh beat me to it. If I'm raising this flop its because I believe he'll go crazy with an underpair or 9x (happens more than you think). I'm never raise folding flop, but I'll call and reevaluate, or raise/call shove

[CobaltBlue 662]

Raising solely for information is just awful in poker.

FYP slightly

[Snamuh 0]

FYP slightly

Good fix. Obviously every action in poker gives us information and we make our decisions accordingly. But we shouldn't raise "to see where we are at" to repeat the common misconception that many poker players cite.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Extremely flawed. Raising for information is just awful in poker. It's just so flawed. Calling down is definitely the best line. When you reraise, you turn your hand into a bluff. Instead you can call, and then let him bluff off more chips on the turn and possibly river. If you feel he would never bluff both turn and river, you can safely fold river, though I wouldn't. It just sounds like you are scared to really play postflop and make challenging decisions on later streets.Essentially when you raise the flop for information, it is because you are too scared to play on the turn and river when cards come off that put you in a spot where you don't know what to do.

I agree.

FYP slightly

It's useless unless we're very deep.