Jesus Made Me Puke

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You are combining two different conversations. The link and all the discussion about it was the PENTECOSTAL church, which has 5+ million members worldwide, but it still relatively small when compared to Christianity as a whole. Lois was then talking about 40 Church of Christ churches that are the only Christians on Earth. Some Church of Christ churches are pentecostal, some aren't. None of the 40 Lois was talking about are pentecostal.You are exactly right about the bolded part.

again, I know that it was Pentecostal, and I know exactly what a pentecostal church is. What I'm saying is, there are more of this kind of church, with similar manner's of worship, than the ones that have "Pentecostal" in their name. For example, I was raised in the Baptist Church of America (or something like that). A much tamer version of Baptistism than, say, Southern Baptist. Basically we were just a generic semi-evangelical protestant church, that has many different names across america. I made many good friends at church camp, and several of them were from Columbus Nebraska. There was a big controversy between some of the columbus kids, because recently the church had broken in two, both of them still belonging to the American Bapists organization, but one was really religiously radical, focusing on "works of the spirit" Like speaking in tongues. There was also a Southern Baptist church in my home town that was tolerant to homosexuals and allowed people to dance. Just because something has a label of "Brand X Church" doesn't make it that. I'm sure lois will back me up on that. I'm just saying, there are more people who worship like the link, than you're trying to represent.

[brvheart 1,752]

again, I know that it was Pentecostal, and I know exactly what a pentecostal church is. What I'm saying is, there are more of this kind of church, with similar manner's of worship, than the ones that have "Pentecostal" in their name. For example, I was raised in the Baptist Church of America (or something like that). A much tamer version of Baptistism than, say, Southern Baptist. Basically we were just a generic semi-evangelical protestant church, that has many different names across america. I made many good friends at church camp, and several of them were from Columbus Nebraska. There was a big controversy between some of the columbus kids, because recently the church had broken in two, both of them still belonging to the American Bapists organization, but one was really religiously radical, focusing on "works of the spirit" Like speaking in tongues. There was also a Southern Baptist church in my home town that was tolerant to homosexuals and allowed people to dance. Just because something has a label of "Brand X Church" doesn't make it that. I'm sure lois will back me up on that. I'm just saying, there are more people who worship like the link, than you're trying to represent.

I obviously didn't get what you were saying, because I agree with you. I wasn't talking about the pentecostal denomination, but instead was using it as a generalization of the style of worship. For instance, that Baptist church in Nebraska is pentecostal. (even if it's not in their name)

[Loismustdie 0]

Dude you really piss me off sometimes. Are you really this blinded by your legalism? Have you even read a book of the New Testament not called Acts? How many churches did Paul deal with, that were openly doing things WAY worse than anything you claim to be damning. (Like not being at church all day on Sunday or having the wrong sign on the front of the church) You would have EASILY dismissed basically every single New Testament church as hell bound if they were around today. And most importantly, if Paul were around today, he would rebuke you for your blatant legalism. There is freedom in Christ, and that includes worship styles. Jesus never says that the church you belong to has to be called a "Church of Christ" for you to be saved. There is only one verse the King James Version of the Bible with the phrase "Churches of Christ" and that is in #1 Romans 16:16. "Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you." But in the same KING JAMES Bible there are THREE times that it mentions "Churches of God"# 1 Thessalonians 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:# 2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: # 3 1 Corinthians 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. So are you wrong? Is your church really supposed to be called Church of God three times on your sign and Church of Christ one time are you are all hell bound?You are being blinded by your churches ego. Jesus died for me and I can do nothing to earn my way to heaven other than believe in that fact.Acts 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our LordLois, seriously, I need you to answer this question.--I believe that I am a sinner. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.--I believe that the penalty for my sin is separation from God. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord--I believe that the only way to receive salvation is through God's gracious gift to me through his son's death on the cross. Ephesians 2:8-9 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.I want to be saved. I have repented of my sins initially and continue to do that on a daily basis. I have announced to the world that I am a follower of Jesus and followed his example in believer's baptism. I also am following his example in sharing my faith with others. Also I read my Bible constantly and pray without ceasing (this is tongue in cheek, but daily) So my question is this, What more... according to the Bible.... must I do to be saved?

Agreed. Except, if you bothered to read the whole story, you would know that many times the whole reason for Paul travelling tp various churches was to correct them, and warn them of the possible consequences of not doing things correctly. Like, God leaving and stuff. But, ignore that part. Picking and choosing works well for you. Edit: I keep forgetting that I am done with you. I need to work on that. Edit: If belief was all you needed, there would be no other instruction, just believe. The bible would essentially be worthless, all the teaching, exhortation, would be completely pointless. You would have x amount of sermons delivered by great biblical teachers, and then following would be the 3 or 4 in the audience who were bright enough to catch on and they would say,"That all was nice, well said, sir. Now, I believe, though, so I am cool, right?" Pause, sigh"Basically, yes. You caught us. Keep it on the downlow plz k thx." There would be literally no reason to reason, no reason to teach, the belief only faith may just be the biggest lie perpetrated by religion ever. In sheer numbers nothing will take more people to hell than the belief only faith. These atheists can't hold a candle to the numbers you will take down- and, you personally having hitched your wagon to this biblical crock will be in some respects a perpetrator.

[Randy Reed 0]

I obviously didn't get what you were saying, because I agree with you. I wasn't talking about the pentecostal denomination, but instead was using it as a generalization of the style of worship. For instance, that Baptist church in Nebraska is pentecostal. (even if it's not in their name)

Follow the shoe!

Agreed. Except, if you bothered to read the whole story, you would know that many times the whole reason for Paul travelling tp various churches was to correct them, and warn them of the possible consequences of not doing things correctly. Like, God leaving and stuff. But, ignore that part. Picking and choosing works well for you. Edit: I keep forgetting that I am done with you. I need to work on that.

Follow the gord!

[Loismustdie 0]

Follow the shoe!Follow the gord!

Great movie.

[brvheart 1,752]

Agreed. Except, if you bothered to read the whole story, you would know that many times the whole reason for Paul travelling tp various churches was to correct them, and warn them of the possible consequences of not doing things correctly. Like, God leaving and stuff. But, ignore that part. Picking and choosing works well for you. Edit: I keep forgetting that I am done with you. I need to work on that.

list any of the several references to this please.

[Loismustdie 0]

list any of the several references to this please.

Sure. Give me some time. Will need to do some reading up. Edit: I know they are there, couldn't find em as fast as I would like. Think about this, though, 1st and 2nd Corinthians is basically just this: exhortation on what they were/were not doing wrong, and instruction on certain things. If it doesn't matter, if the doctrine doesn't matter, why bother? Why exhort? What's the point? If belief is the only end game Paul is a huge bag of wind, because pat that, nothing he says even matters. Edit/Edit: Don't worry, I will find them.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I obviously didn't get what you were saying, because I agree with you. I wasn't talking about the pentecostal denomination, but instead was using it as a generalization of the style of worship. For instance, that Baptist church in Nebraska is pentecostal. (even if it's not in their name)

yes, well, the Assemblies of God are a pentecostal denomination, and there are more than 5 million of them in the US right there.

[brvheart 1,752]

yes, well, the Assemblies of God are a pentecostal denomination, and there are more than 5 million of them in the US right there.

I don't even understand why you are arguing with me. We agree, there are many pentecostal churches and people in those churches.

[brvheart 1,752]

Edit: If belief was all you needed, there would be no other instruction, just believe. The bible would essentially be worthless, all the teaching, exhortation, would be completely pointless. You would have x amount of sermons delivered by great biblical teachers, and then following would be the 3 or 4 in the audience who were bright enough to catch on and they would say,"That all was nice, well said, sir. Now, I believe, though, so I am cool, right?" Pause, sigh"Basically, yes. You caught us. Keep it on the downlow plz k thx." There would be literally no reason to reason, no reason to teach, the belief only faith may just be the biggest lie perpetrated by religion ever. In sheer numbers nothing will take more people to hell than the belief only faith. These atheists can't hold a candle to the numbers you will take down- and, you personally having hitched your wagon to this biblical crock will be in some respects a perpetrator.

You added this part after I already responded to this post. You are absolutely incorrect. The Bible isn't just a salvation book. It's a book about God. We haven't met him and it's our only way to know him better. As you know from reading (I assume) the Bible, you know that we are to always strive to be more like Christ. If the New Testament was one verse long it wouldn't be much help and every Christian would be a baby Christian their whole life. That is not what God wants. Which is why Paul mentions weaker brothers. Weaker brothers are still brothers. Also, when did you go insane? Why do you keep thinking that real Christians don't want to serve God? You assume that if it's only belief then these so called people will say, "ok, we're cool then. We can sin all we want." Have you ever read Romans 6? What would be the point of that entire chapter if you were correct? These people obviously don't care about Jesus and have never actually repented (which means turning 180 degrees from their sin). I don't understand why it's so hard for you to understand that people that believe in Jesus, will read the Bible and see how awesome a close relationship with God can be. They will actually want to serve and honor him. For some reason you act as if this random "I can sin all I want now" is an actual Christian. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Maybe it's because you aren't following God.Also, Why didn't you answer my query about why you think it's necessary to be in a Church of Christ when Church of God is mentioned three times more in the King James Version of the Bible.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I don't even understand why you are arguing with me. We agree, there are many pentecostal churches and people in those churches.

I wasn't really arguing so much, just conversing. Wiki says ( for what that's worth) that there are 30 millions officially penecostal churches, and 80 million (30+50) "Charismatic" churches, which have pentecostal elements. Which seems insane that there are that many, but hey.. at least their sermons have entertainment value, as opposed to some episcopalian service.

[brvheart 1,752]

I wasn't really arguing so much, just conversing. Wiki says ( for what that's worth) that there are 30 millions officially penecostal churches, and 80 million (30+50) "Charismatic" churches, which have pentecostal elements. Which seems insane that there are that many, but hey.. at least their sermons have entertainment value, as opposed to some episcopalian service.

I'm assuming you meant church members and not churches. 80 million churches at an average of 300 people a church is like 24 billion members, and I doubt there are that many Pentecostal people.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm assuming you meant church members and not churches. 80 million churches at an average of 300 people a church is like 24 billion members, and I doubt there are that many Pentecostal people.

yeah, I'm tired and extra-prone to typos.

[Loismustdie 0]

You added this part after I already responded to this post. You are absolutely incorrect. The Bible isn't just a salvation book. It's a book about God. We haven't met him and it's our only way to know him better. As you know from reading (I assume) the Bible, you know that we are to always strive to be more like Christ. If the New Testament was one verse long it wouldn't be much help and every Christian would be a baby Christian their whole life. That is not what God wants. Which is why Paul mentions weaker brothers. Weaker brothers are still brothers. Also, when did you go insane? Why do you keep thinking that real Christians don't want to serve God? You assume that if it's only belief then these so called people will say, "ok, we're cool then. We can sin all we want." Have you ever read Romans 6? What would be the point of that entire chapter if you were correct? These people obviously don't care about Jesus and have never actually repented (which means turning 180 degrees from their sin). I don't understand why it's so hard for you to understand that people that believe in Jesus, will read the Bible and see how awesome a close relationship with God can be. They will actually want to serve and honor him. For some reason you act as if this random "I can sin all I want now" is an actual Christian. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Maybe it's because you aren't following God.Also, Why didn't you answer my query about why you think it's necessary to be in a Church of Christ when Church of God is mentioned three times more in the King James Version of the Bible.

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. By your own statement, you recognize that belief is not enough, that there must be more. Repentance is necessary. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense, because belief in and of itself means nothing. Kind of like this:37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.[40] And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.[41] Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.[42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Or this:[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Belief not enough. Or here:15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Some of Jesus last words. Completely unimportant. The scriptures are very clear baptism ie some typr of "work" is neccesary right of the bat. How about here:[20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.[21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:[22] Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Or here:Mark.1[1] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;[2] As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.[3] The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.[5] And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.[6] And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;[7] And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.[9] And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.[10] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:[11] And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.[12] And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.[13] And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.[14] Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,[15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. I like this one, mostly because it covers alot of ground. It starts with a partial answer to one of your questions- Why Church of Christ? Who brought the gospel, who's gospel are we following? Look at the first scripture. Or, think of the one that goes like this, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" where he basically takes ownership of it. All that being said, I would imagine that if that was literally the only mistake that a Church made God would be cool with that. Or maybe not. Look at this:10] Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.[11] This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.[12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Peter clearly gives meaning to a name, and refers to " neither is there salvation in any other". But I digress, let's get back to Mark, where it talks about Johns baptism, and then it shows 2 things- 1, Jesus himself being baptized and receiving the spirit by doing so and 2, God being pleased with him doing so. Not to mention how the chapter ends, which is Jesus preaching the gospel, which was what? A combination of things, really, but it generally culminated with belief, repentance, and baptism, and then serving God thereafter. I say generally because there were times when the Holy Spirit came in other ways- these times are looked on as more miraculous than anything else because it clearly was not the "rule" as it were. Enough scripture for now, that should tie you up for hours. Look, the reason I rail against the whole "belief only saves" things is because it doesn't make sense, as you clearly described your self- you referred to the idea that repentance was neccesary (from what?) which is good that you recognize that, but then after repentance, then what? Is repentance good enough? Clearly not, nobody is saying that. So, what comes next? How does one rid themselves of sin(that which you have repented from)? You asked me a question a few posts back, and it was "What must I do to be saved?" That exact question was asked of Peter, yet you reject that answer, so the question is, why are you asking me? I can't MAKE you understand, I can just show you the words, the doctrine, my goodness some of Jesus himself last words I can show you but unless you listen you will always be asking that question, always be stuck in this circle, always be dealing with people going,"if belief is enough, why should I even show up on Sunday?"

[brvheart 1,752]

Ah, now we are getting somewhere. By your own statement, you recognize that belief is not enough, that there must be more. Repentance is necessary. Otherwise, it wouldn't make sense, because belief in and of itself means nothing. Kind of like this:37] Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.[39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.[40] And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.[41] Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.[42] And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. Or this:[35] Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.[36] And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?[37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Belief not enough. Or here:15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.[16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Some of Jesus last words. Completely unimportant. The scriptures are very clear baptism ie some typr of "work" is neccesary right of the bat. How about here:[20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.[21] The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:[22] Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. Or here:Mark.1[1] The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;[2] As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.[3] The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.[5] And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.[6] And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;[7] And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.[8] I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.[9] And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.[10] And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:[11] And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.[12] And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.[13] And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.[14] Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,[15] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. I like this one, mostly because it covers alot of ground. It starts with a partial answer to one of your questions- Why Church of Christ? Who brought the gospel, who's gospel are we following? Look at the first scripture. Or, think of the one that goes like this, "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church" where he basically takes ownership of it. All that being said, I would imagine that if that was literally the only mistake that a Church made God would be cool with that. Or maybe not. Look at this:10] Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.[11] This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.[12] Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Peter clearly gives meaning to a name, and refers to " neither is there salvation in any other". But I digress, let's get back to Mark, where it talks about Johns baptism, and then it shows 2 things- 1, Jesus himself being baptized and receiving the spirit by doing so and 2, God being pleased with him doing so. Not to mention how the chapter ends, which is Jesus preaching the gospel, which was what? A combination of things, really, but it generally culminated with belief, repentance, and baptism, and then serving God thereafter. I say generally because there were times when the Holy Spirit came in other ways- these times are looked on as more miraculous than anything else because it clearly was not the "rule" as it were. Enough scripture for now, that should tie you up for hours. Look, the reason I rail against the whole "belief only saves" things is because it doesn't make sense, as you clearly described your self- you referred to the idea that repentance was neccesary (from what?) which is good that you recognize that, but then after repentance, then what? Is repentance good enough? Clearly not, nobody is saying that. So, what comes next? How does one rid themselves of sin(that which you have repented from)? You asked me a question a few posts back, and it was "What must I do to be saved?" That exact question was asked of Peter, yet you reject that answer, so the question is, why are you asking me? I can't MAKE you understand, I can just show you the words, the doctrine, my goodness some of Jesus himself last words I can show you but unless you listen you will always be asking that question, always be stuck in this circle, always be dealing with people going,"if belief is enough, why should I even show up on Sunday?"

Thanks for the post, I'll read it tonight. But about the first sentence... OF COURSE! Even the demons believe... and shudder. James 2.