Jj

[Gargoyle97 0]

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J , J . UTG raises, 2 folds, MP1 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls.Flop: (17.50 SB) T , 5 , 3 (4 players)UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, UTG 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.Turn: (13.25 BB) 5 (3 players)UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.River: (16.25 BB) 2 (3 players)UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.Final Pot: 19.25 BBWith Jh is it okay to call the flop three bet?Is the river overcall okay?

[Actuary 3]

Woudl UTG be betting with the Ah enough for you to still be ahead?I'm not concerned that you are overcalling; except to the extent it helps define UTG's hand I'm fine with the call unless you know UTG to be passive

[RISEorFall 0]

i think preflop's interesting. utg raise and mp 3bet, with standard position plays that means were behind. but thats not whats interesting to me (as most people ignore position)it's that we can either 1) cap or 2) just call and see what utg does. it gives us more info on his hand that if we cap and he callsplus we have good position relative to the 3 bettor (i mean we can make an isolation raise if we choose)also, im not sure i like the river call. utg leads/raises even after we cap preflopusually this is AK, TT+everything but AK beats us, unless it was AK of hearts.we are rarely ahead, and with MP calling the whole way , im not too confident in our flush draw either

[Frez 0]

UTG has had 5 chances to act, incl obv the very first action of the hand, and he bet/raised at EVERY opportunity. I can't believe he's 3-betting flop with the naked Ah, let alone trying to bluff the river with it into 2 players who have called the entire way. We capped PF and he still donk/raised flop.I probably call the flop 3-bet, but fold the turn. I can't imagine a hand UTG has that we are ahead of. I'd expect to see a big pair, probably with a heart in it.

[Gargoyle97 0]

My plan on the flop call was to fold the turn unimproved.I considered the board pairing on the turn an improvement for my hand--my two J outs are clean now. My flush outs have to be heavily discounted though not completely ignored.Once I make the turn call the pot is too big to fold for one bet on the river, imo. However, this justification seems uncomfortable as I participated in making the pot so big.

[RISEorFall 0]

My plan on the flop call was to fold the turn unimproved.I considered the board pairing on the turn an improvement for my hand--my two J outs are clean now. My flush outs have to be heavily discounted though not completely ignored.Once I make the turn call the pot is too big to fold for one bet on the river, imo. However, this justification seems uncomfortable as I participated in making the pot so big.

how does the board pairing make your J outs good? the 5 doesn't change anything. still, the pot's not big enough on the turn to call with just 2 outs. even if we give you a couple for the flush (which i highly doubt is good anyway), it's still not a good call.and yeah the river is huge but you literally beat nothing unless you have a read that utg is an aggro donk and MP is a station

[Zach6668 513]

AhTx?

[Gargoyle97 0]

If I discount the flush outs to 1, I think the turn call is good. odds 14.7:1, pot 15.3:1I don't know the right answer on the river except making a wrong call is cheaper than a wrong fold.

[RISEorFall 0]

If I discount the flush outs to 1, I think the turn call is good. odds 14.7:1, pot 15.3:1I don't know the right answer on the river except making a wrong call is cheaper than a wrong fold.

no, if you discount them down to 1 then you have 3 outs, meaning you have about a 5-6% chance of winning, so you need roughly 20-1

[Gargoyle97 0]

I'm pretty sure it's 14.3:1 (46/3 -1):1 to draw to 3 outs on the turn.

[Actuary 3]

AhTx?

[RISEorFall 0]

im not a math guy, maybe actuary or zach knows for sure...but i know it's 11-1 for a 3 outer with 2 to come, i would think it's more than 14-1 with only one...

[RISEorFall 0]

would you have AhTx here?it can be included in his range, but i think that's pretty optimistic

[Zach6668 513]

im not a math guy, maybe actuary or zach knows for sure...but i know it's 11-1 for a 3 outer with 2 to come, i would think it's more than 14-1 with only one...

I'm not a math guy either, but 46 cards left, 3 are good, 43 are bad...= 43 to 3= 43/3 to 3/3= 14.3333 to 1================3 outs twice seems to be 12.725% equity, which means about 8.85 to 1... using pokerstove... I don't know how to do it using real math. That's what Actuary is for.

[Actuary 3]

would you have AhTx here?it can be included in his range, but i think that's pretty optimistic

enough to call the river, yes.

[RISEorFall 0]

enough to call the river, yes.

and we have MP beat enough, too? we have to overcall...pot is huge but we're really stretching to find hands we beat...

[Zach6668 513]

AhTx and Tx imho.We're getting like 19 to 1 or something like that.As someone pointed out already, it's generally worse to make a mistake in folding the whole pot here, than it would be to make a small fraction of a bet-sized mistake.

[Actuary 3]

and we have MP beat enough, too? we have to overcall...pot is huge but we're really stretching to find hands we beat...

I can't put MP1 on a hand that plays each street like this; but I won't be concerned with him, given his line

[Zach6668 513]

I can't put MP1 on a hand that plays each street like this; but I won't be concerned with him, given his line

MP1 has 8h8x.No matter what he has, it's not better than our JJ the way it was played. Maybe a scared QQ with no heart?Like 99% of the time we're ahead of him.So we just need to be ahead of the other dude like 6% of the time.

[Gargoyle97 0]

MP1 has 8h8x.No matter what he has, it's not better than our JJ the way it was played. Maybe a scared QQ with no heart?Like 99% of the time we're ahead of him.So we just need to be ahead of the other dude like 6% of the time.

LOL, he had the black 8s.

[Zach6668 513]

Wow.... he's even worse than I thought.I still read hands like a machine tho.