Runner Runner Nonsense

[Temporary Nuts 1]

everyone essentially has 100BB stacks.I'm in the CO with T 7 :heart:Folds to me, I pop to $1SB who is fairly passive calls. BB calls.Pot $3Flop: A 2 3 :spade:flop checks around.Turn: T :club:checks to me, I bet $1.50 (ok here?)SB calls, BB foldsPot $6river 7 :diamond:SB leads for $2.10Effective remaining stacks are about $20my move/plan is?

[slt1der 0]

What was your image? Does the SB have the gear of slow playing a wheel? I am thinking mid PP. At the very least, call. Although I would raise. Interested to hear what others say.

[Zach6668 513]

I saw this title from the main board page, and saw "slt1der", whom I've never heard of, and I was soooooo sure this was gonna be a bad beat post, lol.(No offense to slt1der, just new posters are usually the ones who make retarded bad beat posts.)

[SCS 0]

I raise to about $7-$8 on the river. I'd probably fold to a shove.

[LJB723 0]

It's a pretty odd line from the sb. Only hand I'm worried about is A7. If he has anything bigger than us I'm probably paying him off. Could this be that he picked up a club draw on the turn and/or put you on a steal when you bet the turn?I raise to $8, if he shoves I stubbornly call. Wouldn't be overjoyed about it.

[bobbywithani 0]

I raise to $8, if he shoves I stubbornly call. Wouldn't be overjoyed about it.

Granted I'm no expert on NL, or any form of poker for that matter, but I do not think we can raise this and call a shove. If we are attempting to pick off a bluff, then calling is the best option. Raising and calling a shove seems terrible to me because we should only be doing this against the biggest of maniacs. Basically a raise on the river gets us a call from an ace that cannot fold a pair. If villian shoves back into us, I cannot see a single hand that we beat.River bet from villian seems more like a blocking bet more than anything, but he very well could be blocking with the best hand. A10, A3, A2, (from a passive villian), could all be quite scared at this board and attempt to bet to reduce the risk to their stack.To me the only two options are raise/fold and call, depending on how loose the villian is. If he is tight-passive call, loose passive raise/fold.

[mtdesmoines 3]

everyone essentially has 100BB stacks.I'm in the CO with T 7 :heart:Folds to me, I pop to $1SB who is fairly passive calls. BB calls.Pot $3Flop: A 2 3 :spade:flop checks around.Turn: T :club:checks to me, I bet $1.50 (ok here?)SB calls, BB foldsPot $6river 7 :diamond:SB leads for $2.10Effective remaining stacks are about $20my move/plan is?

Hmmm .. "fairly passive" .... take it that we are dealing with a calling station here? Anyway, if I'm raising PF, I'm representing on the flop every time. Unless the SB is a station deluxe.Otherwise, what's the point of raising PF? Prob a bet of $2.50 or so. Depends on table texture.I bet the turn too, now that I have something ... prob 3/4 pot At the river, I prob I just call the SB lead, because he's not paying you off big time withjust one pair, so raising is useless, and I really don't want to be raised by aces up because I think I would have to pay off a raise.

[rdtedm 0]

Granted I'm no expert on NL, or any form of poker for that matter, but I do not think we can raise this and call a shove. If we are attempting to pick off a bluff, then calling is the best option. Raising and calling a shove seems terrible to me because we should only be doing this against the biggest of maniacs. Basically a raise on the river gets us a call from an ace that cannot fold a pair. If villian shoves back into us, I cannot see a single hand that we beat.River bet from villian seems more like a blocking bet more than anything, but he very well could be blocking with the best hand. A10, A3, A2, (from a passive villian), could all be quite scared at this board and attempt to bet to reduce the risk to their stack.To me the only two options are raise/fold and call, depending on how loose the villian is. If he is tight-passive call, loose passive raise/fold.

I agree with everything here except that he's "blocking with the best hand." I don't see him checking two pair twice, so either he has A7 or I'm assuming you have him beat. I like a smallish raise and fold to a shove.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Anyway, if I'm raising PF, I'm representing on the flop every time.

At higher limits I might fire a c-bet on the flop as well, but the problem is with the $25NL tables I play is that people call with ace-garbo constantly... suited or not, and check-call every street. Seeing as it's multiway and i haven't even flopped a gutterball on a fairly naked ace high board I'm content to give up the hand unimproved.There are a lot of other naked flops I'll fire at, but this is not one of them with two opponents.

[mtdesmoines 3]

At higher limits I might fire a c-bet on the flop as well, but the problem is with the $25NL tables I play is that people call with ace-garbo constantly... suited or not, and check-call every street. Seeing as it's multiway and i haven't even flopped a gutterball on a fairly naked ace high board I'm content to give up the hand unimproved.There are a lot of other naked flops I'll fire at, but this is not one of them with two opponents.

If you never bet with nothing, how do you ever get action?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

If you never bet with nothing, how do you ever get action?

if you always bet with nothing how do you ever profit? ;)Obviously if I raise 10-7s I'm willing to be aggressive. I just don't feel a c-bet on this flop against 2 opponents is profitable. If it comes K-2-3 I'm betting, however. Ace high boards play very differently that most any other imo.I'm also going to balance this by checking something like A-K behind some percentage of the time... probably not these opponents but I do on occasion.

[mtdesmoines 3]

if you always bet with nothing how do you ever profit? HmmmmmmmmObviously if I raise 10-7s I'm willing to be aggressive. I just don't feel a c-bet on this flop against 2 opponents is profitable. If it comes K-2-3 I'm betting, however. Ace high boards play very differently that most any other imo.So here's an experience thing. I find that people will stick with a K-anything on a K-high flop, but they love to fold an ace and show you and say, "You probably have me outkicked."I'm also going to balance this by checking something like A-K behind some percentage of the time... probably not these opponents but I do on occasion.I hate balancing. Full speed. Every hand.

[KalStashun 0]

Wouldn't be unwise to fold to a shove. Personally I play these hands with caution, so I agree with a smallish raise here.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Wouldn't be unwise to fold to a shove. Personally I play these hands with caution, so I agree with a smallish raise here.

A bet-raise-reraise from a passive player is a disastrous way to conclude this hand.

[slt1der 0]

(No offense to slt1der, just new posters are usually the ones who make retarded bad beat posts.)

None taken whatsoever. To OP: how did the hand turn out? Going through the post has me curious what villain held if it went to showdown.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

meh, i think i've got enough responses to assure that I played this hand properlyishI was shitting my pants when he donked into me for less than half the pot... i knew there was value to be had in raising but I was scared shitless of what to do if he shoved... because i see check-check-block-shove a lot with monsters from passive players. I didn't know whether i should call or fold... leaning towards fold but this forum convinced me that would have been the correct play.Anyway I raise to $7 total on the dot... he calls and shows AKo

[mtdesmoines 3]

meh, i think i've got enough responses to assure that I played this hand properlyishI was shitting my pants when he donked into me for less than half the pot... i knew there was value to be had in raising but I was scared shitless of what to do if he shoved... because i see check-check-block-shove a lot with monsters from passive players. I didn't know whether i should call or fold... leaning towards fold but this forum convinced me that would have been the correct play.Anyway I raise to $7 total on the dot... he calls and shows AKo

See why we don't slow play AK / one pair hands, kids?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

See why we don't slow play AK / one pair hands, kids?

yeah this definitely changed my read on him drastically... i mean... not 3 betting preflop is one bad thing... but then to check the flop AND check call the turn... wtf... and then donk for less then half on the river WTFFFFHis hand was completely out of the range i had put him on to realistically show up with... had i known he could do this w/ AK i would have been MUCH less hesitant to raise/fold.Needless to say... when this guy pots bets it or raises big I get out of the way w/o the nuts from here on out.

[DonkSlayer 1]

It's a pretty odd line from the sb. Only hand I'm worried about is A7. If he has anything bigger than us I'm probably paying him off. Could this be that he picked up a club draw on the turn and/or put you on a steal when you bet the turn?I raise to $8, if he shoves I stubbornly call. Wouldn't be overjoyed about it.

Ew. I know "odd line" is everyone's metaphor for "he played badly" but is it also for "he must have something we can beat?"I think villain shows up here with an overslowplayed big ace, or a hand that beats us. He's never bluffing, like ever. I would consider raising if we had aces up, but since we just have tens up, I'm just calling. Shoving is awful.

[Sheiky 0]

I'd bet the flop with T-high, though i'm not convinced it's going to be a super profitable bet in the long run against weak players.Turn bet is fine imo, checking behind is possible but you're hand is super vunreable and I don't mind making a smallish bet here.River is a definite raise, and a pretty easy fold is he comes over the top, raising to $7 sounds perfect to me. Well played.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I'd bet the flop with T-high, though i'm not convinced it's going to be a super profitable bet in the long run against weak players.Turn bet is fine imo, checking behind is possible but you're hand is super vunreable and I don't mind making a smallish bet here.River is a definite raise, and a pretty easy fold is he comes over the top, raising to $7 sounds perfect to me. Well played.

Why are we so in love with raising? I know results were posted now, but seriously, he's never, ever, ever bluffing. What range and %'s are you assigning villain that raising is a profitable play over time here?

[Sheiky 0]

Ax, and i think he's never bet/folding the river with whatever Ax he bets with.Given the way he played it i'd weight his range against super strong hands(sets and aces up) and more towards Ax type stuff that he can't get away from.I've been suprised before, but very little lock hands would be played this way, and i think we're far too often ahead here that calling is losing a tonne of value.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Ax, and i think he's never bet/folding the river with whatever Ax he bets with.Given the way he played it i'd weight his range against super strong hands(sets and aces up) and more towards Ax type stuff that he can't get away from.I've been suprised before, but very little lock hands would be played this way, and i think we're far too often ahead here that calling is losing a tonne of value.

Fair enough. I still think big Ax is the low end of his range, but if we're disagreeing, at least it's on hand range for villain and not how to play it given an accepted range. If I had your range in mind then I would certainly take your line.

[Sheiky 0]

Fair enough. I still think big Ax is the low end of his range, but if we're disagreeing, at least it's on hand range for villain and not how to play it given an accepted range. If I had your range in mind then I would certainly take your line.

Why do you think that?I think it's just really unlikely for anyone to play a super strong hand the way he did, generaly when people slowplay lock hands on the flop/turn they pretty much give their hand away by betting big on the river, A7s/AT are possibilities but it's a lot more unlikely he has A3/2/7 so aces up aren't that big a part of his range either. I don't expect a passive player to re-raise big aces from the SB to a 4x raise much either.