78suited

[Gargoyle97 0]

Earlier in session I had raised pf with KK in mid position. UTG+1 (BB at the time) lead out on a flop of A34r with J3 off suit. An active player picking up lots of small pots with questionable looking bets/raises when scare cards hit. I don't recall seeing any other c/r from him.What is the best turn line? check behind, b/f?Once I called the turn raise putting him on air, is the river call correct?PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7, 8. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: (4 SB) J, 8, 2(4 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.Turn: (3.50 BB) K(3 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, SB folds, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.River: (7.50 BB) J(2 players)UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 9.50 BB

[Zach6668 513]

Um, I fold here on the turn.

[Actuary 3]

yeah, I generally fold 3rd pair worse kicker no redraw hands to a c/rbut yes, calling river is correctI would not check behind.we didn't play with the guy and we'd need more convincing that he c/r two players a lot with nothing

[Zach6668 513]

Once I called the turn raise putting him on air, is the river call correct?

If you think air is a significant part of his range (ie a higher percent than the price we're getting to call down, taking into account that he has 3-6 outs most of the time), why in the world would it be incorrect to fold THIS river?I'm not saying this to be rude, but you need to reevaluate the way you see hands play out, the way you think about the game. A lot of it has to do with the statement "putting him on air". You can't put someone on air when he plays his hand like this. The fact of the matter is that he's going to do this with his made hands as well. It's possible to think that his range includes a lot of air, that's certainly possible. What you then do is take a look at the price we have to call down and compare it to how often we think he has air and misses the river with his overcard outs.Why call the turn if you don't snap call this particular river? A better question, what exactly was your plan on the river when you called the turn? You need to know that before you call the turn.

[Roo6339 0]

Thing is, people who bluff still make hands too. Something I need to work on is not calling down with weak hands just because I've seen the opponent bluff before.It could also be a positive thing to fold psychologically too. If he is bluffing and you fold then he'll be thinking it worked and he'll continue to bluff at you a lot. If he has a hand and you fold he'll be thinking you can read him pretty well... Dunno... probably not the most accurate post lol.

[Farmboyz 0]

You've given away an extra bet here, unnecessarily. It's entirely possible that UTG+1 has a King. You should be checking the turn. Then calling the river. You aren't strong enough to hammer like that.

[Actuary 3]

You've given away an extra bet here, unnecessarily. It's entirely possible that UTG+1 has a King. You should be checking the turn. Then calling the river. You aren't strong enough to hammer like that.

I like checking the turn (vs this opponent) if we were HU on the turn; but I'd rather not give free cards to both players.Hands are often made complicated by two players, each of which you'd play differently against, if HU.and why do you say "he could have a King?" As if that is not already known. What is particular about a King?

[KoRnholio 2]

You've given away an extra two extra bets here, unnecessarily. It's entirely possible that UTG+1 has a King. You should be checking the turn. Then calling the river. You aren't strong enough to hammer like that.

FYP. 1 extra bet on the turn+1 on the river.

[Gargoyle97 0]

I'm not saying this to be rude, but you need to reevaluate the way you see hands play out, the way you think about the game. A lot of it has to do with the statement "putting him on air". You can't put someone on air when he plays his hand like this. The fact of the matter is that he's going to do this with his made hands as well. It's possible to think that his range includes a lot of air, that's certainly possible. What you then do is take a look at the price we have to call down and compare it to how often we think he has air and misses the river with his overcard outs.Why call the turn if you don't snap call this particular river? A better question, what exactly was your plan on the river when you called the turn? You need to know that before you call the turn.

Don't worry about being rude.I agree with what you are saying. I can see most of this in reviewing hands after the fact. I need to be more disciplined when I play. So I figure I will post some hands and take my lumps here to drive home the point.

[Zach6668 513]

Don't worry about being rude.I agree with what you are saying. I can see most of this in reviewing hands after the fact. I need to be more disciplined when I play. So I figure I will post some hands and take my lumps here to drive home the point.

Goot! I'm looking forward to more hands.

[quadaces 0]

I think if youre calling that turn you have to call the river, especially when it pairs.

[Roo6339 0]

I think if youre calling that turn you have to call the river, especially when it pairs.

I think we all agree on that, it's the turn call that's the mistake.

[quadaces 0]

Just a thought, anyone at all consider raising the river. I personally dont think I would, but with the way the OP played the hand to that point, do you think there is any value in raising the river as a bluff? I would think UTG+1 would have to put him on a J with a river raise (obv. unless he has one) Just a thought, thats all.

[Actuary 3]

Just a thought, anyone at all consider raising the river. I personally dont think I would, but with the way the OP played the hand to that point, do you think there is any value in raising the river as a bluff? I would think UTG+1 would have to put him on a J with a river raise (obv. unless he has one) Just a thought, thats all.

I don't see any worse hands calling or better hands folding.I just don't se Kx folding when the board pairsI think he'd c/c if he was going to fold to a raiseB/F is not that popular at 50c.I was watch some 40/80 or something. I rarely doAnd it was inrteresting how much folding there was on the turn and river in good size pots after much aggression in prior and current streets.I would have loved to know what they were all thinking.just an aside

[quadaces 0]

I don't see any worse hands calling or better hands folding.I just don't se Kx folding when the board pairsI think he'd c/c if he was going to fold to a raiseB/F is not that popular at 50c.I was watch some 40/80 or something. I rarely doAnd it was inrteresting how much folding there was on the turn and river in good size pots after much aggression in prior streets.I would have loved to know what they were all thinking.just an aside

That was my thinking too. Ive only seen B/F a very few times playing $3-6 and $4-8 and when it does happen its a stone cold bluff. They arent folding TP or even 3rd pair.