3/6 Live!111 Ladies

[Zach6668 513]

I'm really bad at the details here, but I think I'll get the point across.QQ in LP.Bunch of limpers, I raise, lots of calls. We get tot he flop about 5 handed.Flop is T74 rainbow.Checks to Mario, who is a short old ass italian... good guy, but passive as balls. Gus on my right folds, I raise, Ludacris calls two cold very fast, Mario calls.We take the turn 3 handed.Turn is a J, completing the rainbow.Checks to me, I bet, Ludacris raises, Mario snap coldcalls, Hero deliberates and calls.River is an X, doesn't pair the board, etc.Luda bets, Mario calls, Hero instamucks.

[blazerp0410 0]

why call the turn raise if you are going to fold to a bet on a blank river? I understand we think one of them played 8-9 but save the bet and fold to the turn raise.

[LJB723 0]

River fold looks standard given the players' descriptions and I would expect to see 89 very often here. Which brings me to...Why wouldn't you fold the turn? You must have felt behind to 89 and JT, both of which could play this way. There's not a lot of river cards that would make you happy.

[Zach6668 513]

89 isn't the only hand in this guy's range, and Mario could have any sort of one pair hand here.I figure I'm live enough to peel for my set/2p outs, and can fold UI.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I didn't know people folded in LHE getting a brazillion to one with an overpair on a quasi-non threatening board.

[Flushgarden 0]

If you called the turn you have to call the river. Why did you call the turn if you planned to fold when a blank hit on the river? Were you hoping for another Q? Even if you got one it might make one of their hands better than yours. As it is, we have about 15 big bets in this pot, so I think you have to call the river.Live 3/6 is such a joke. Its definitely likely we're behind, but I think there is a better than 1/15 chance we're still ahead.

[Zach6668 513]

If you called the turn you have to call the river.

This is incorrect.

[Flushgarden 0]

This is incorrect.

This post has no value. Explain your thought process then. You posted this hand asking for help. If there are 15 big bets in the pot, and you called the turn, with very little chance to improve, they why did you fold the river when a "blank" hit? To call ONLY try try to hit a set, when hitting that set may give somebody else a better hand is just stupid.

[Zach6668 513]

I'm calling to improve.How many outs do you give me, on average?Or, what do you put the players on?Do you understand the concept of hidden outs?Ludacris can have any number of two pair hands here, and Mario is so old and loose that top pair is probably his most probably holding.I didn't post this hand because I didn't know what the best line was. I posted it to see if other people think the same way I do, and to get your guys brains working the right way, with respect to poker thought, imo.

[LJB723 0]

I'm calling to improve.How many outs do you give me, on average?Or, what do you put the players on?Do you understand the concept of hidden outs?Ludacris can have any number of two pair hands here, and Mario is so old and loose that top pair is probably his most probably holding.I didn't post this hand because I didn't know what the best line was. I posted it to see if other people think the same way I do, and to get your guys brains working the right way, with respect to poker thought, imo.

If you did improve to a set are you flat calling a river bet or raising? Because the only realistic hand you beat is JT. I say Mario has JT, occasionally AJ, KJ, QJ (J9) if he is as passive as you say.So imo your outs are 7,4,Q. Maybe enough to justify the call, but it would have to be reads reliant.

[Zach6668 513]

Ludacris is a young guy, a basketball player on our University team here. I call him Luca because of the resemblence, but I'm probably a racist. But anyways. I keep thinking he'd be aggressive, but he's not so much, but he'd c/r turn here with the straight or any two pair type hand. I actually think JT is probably the most likely hand for both players, although Mario can have AJ or KJ here a lot, as well, and of course, 89. I'd doubt Mario has 89, due to the flop donk, but you never know.How big is the pot here? Quick math says 13 BB, and one more for me to see the river here, closing the action. So 13-1, meaning I need ~3.5ish outs on average? Of course, I'm drawing dead when one villain has straight. When one villain has two pair, I've got as many as 8 outs, depending on what hand the other villain has (ie, if Luda has T7, and Mario has AJ, 3 of my outs are gone, so I'd have 5 in that spot).So, I don't know. Let me run some stove numbers. I'm pretty sure my equity here is more than enough to call to improve.The reason I think calling the turn and the river is a mistake, is because I'm never ahead when I get c/r on the turn in this game. If I had JJ, then I'd be ahead often enough to see showdown. I just think the pot is large enough to call to improve. I also think I wouldn't raise the river with a board pairing card, simply because I never know which outs are live or not, so I'm not making a smart value raise. A Q, I'd probably have to go with my reads, and it depends on who is betting, etc. I'd like to go for an overcall if for some reason Mario bets. I'd still probably just call if it goes bet/call to me. Meh. I think 89 is just such a large portion of the range, I'd need to be ahead more often to raise, I think.Fwiw, the river in this hand was actually an 8 or a 9. I didn't put that because it makes the river fold trivially easy. I just said a blank, because I planned on folding the river UI anyways.

[Actuary 3]

I didn't post this hand because I didn't know what the best line was. I posted it to see if other people think the same way I do, and to get your guys brains working the right way, with respect to poker thought, imo.

whoo.I'm doing ok thenI skimmed and saw you were responging a lot and wondered why you weren't waiting for more inputNow I see it was more rhetorical in nature.In a game wher you are "never ahead on a turn c/r" would you neccessrily slant the combos to 89? Or would he just as likely go to town with 74?I like tht the turrn ia a J, in one respect, it makes a villains top two more likely. If it were say a 2, I'd be more concerned that the raise was a flopped set.well.. gotta go watch UFC.

[navybuttons 15]

well.. gotta go watch UFC.

awesome. thank you for reminding me. oh, it's not on for another hour. ty anyway.i can't imagine that anyone is missing my presence around here. but if anyone is, just imagine i'm quoting whatever zach says. lately, in both the shorthanded and LHE subforums he's been correct and hit all relevant points.

[Zach6668 513]

lol sorry Act, I didn't mean it condescendingly.