Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 2/3NL 8 players. stacks are all 300+UTG - 600Hero - 300C/O - 400the table is about 6/8 good players , with 2 donks.I'm not in the hand, but I know the cards of everyone in this spot and just wondering what you guys would do if you're the hero here.Hero UTG+1 with AA.UTG limp, hero raise to 17. C/O calls 17, UTG call.3 players.flop Ac, Kc, 2sutg check, hero bet 20, C/O call 20. UTG raise to 80.hero? Link to post Share on other sites
Influcted 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I would flatcall and lead at the turn again. Link to post Share on other sites
whiterice714 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 ram & jam... off the top of my head i'd assume UTG has 222 CO club draw, possibly like JcTc or something... maybe UTG has A K... i think i make it $180w/ the objective being to ultimately make it all in obv Link to post Share on other sites
nomad_monad 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 i'd bet more on this flop than 20 into a ~50 pot against 2 other playersas played, it sort of depends on who UTG and CO are. are they the good players, the donks, or 1 of each?without knowing that, i go ahead and put in another raise here to 180. we don't want CO coming along on this draw-ish board. as for UTG's range, i'm thinking A2, 22, AK, Ax, and a squeeze (either semibluff w/JTs, naked flush draw, or occasionally complete air). he's never folding 22. he's probably not firing the turn with an Ax that isn't two pair, plus a lot of cards come that can freeze him. he might fire again with a draw if he misses, but then again he might not, and we really screw ourselves if it hits.thus we should really focus on playing this hand to maximize against A2/AK, which might not be able to get away if we make the right flop raise, but could do so if we smooth call and action-killing cards arrive on the turn (not to mention the CO could hit a draw). depending on how good he is, he might fold AK (but more likely A2) to a shove, so the reraise to 180 puts him to a raise-or-fold decision that he could mess up for either of those hands. good players should realize that the repop to 180 is the pretty much the same thing as a shove, but even then, they don't always fold the same % of times as when facing a shove.as for the draws, JTs is probably shoving, and if villain is decent, other draws are probably folding (since a call commits him to the pot playing a draw passively - awful) even though the odds we'd be giving would be somewhat decent. but who knows, he might call, and that would be kind of sucky. which is why betting 40ish on the flop would've been better, because when he'd have to check-raise bigger and commit himself to calling our reraise, meaning we wouldn't have to go through this touchy reraise sizing exercise. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 at a live 2/3 game, I'd just shovel them all here. UTG likes his hand, may as well get all the money in now before a scare card comes and slows you down. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Shove sounds right to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 i'd bet more on this flop than 20 into a ~50 pot against 2 other playersas played, it sort of depends on who UTG and CO are. are they the good players, the donks, or 1 of each?without knowing that, i go ahead and put in another raise here to 180. we don't want CO coming along on this draw-ish board. as for UTG's range, i'm thinking A2, 22, AK, Ax, and a squeeze (either semibluff w/JTs, naked flush draw, or occasionally complete air). he's never folding 22. he's probably not firing the turn with an Ax that isn't two pair, plus a lot of cards come that can freeze him. he might fire again with a draw if he misses, but then again he might not, and we really screw ourselves if it hits.thus we should really focus on playing this hand to maximize against A2/AK, which might not be able to get away if we make the right flop raise, but could do so if we smooth call and action-killing cards arrive on the turn (not to mention the CO could hit a draw). depending on how good he is, he might fold AK (but more likely A2) to a shove, so the reraise to 180 puts him to a raise-or-fold decision that he could mess up for either of those hands. good players should realize that the repop to 180 is the pretty much the same thing as a shove, but even then, they don't always fold the same % of times as when facing a shove.as for the draws, JTs is probably shoving, and if villain is decent, other draws are probably folding (since a call commits him to the pot playing a draw passively - awful) even though the odds we'd be giving would be somewhat decent. but who knows, he might call, and that would be kind of sucky. which is why betting 40ish on the flop would've been better, because when he'd have to check-raise bigger and commit himself to calling our reraise, meaning we wouldn't have to go through this touchy reraise sizing exercise.Nomad, seriously you always scare me with your strat posts.well done here with your overall outlook on the hand. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 2/3NL 8 players. stacks are all 300+UTG - 600Hero - 300C/O - 400the table is about 6/8 good players , with 2 donks.I'm not in the hand, but I know the cards of everyone in this spot and just wondering what you guys would do if you're the hero here.Hero UTG+1 with AA.UTG limp, hero raise to 17. C/O calls 17, UTG call.3 players.flop Ac, Kc, 2sutg check, hero bet 20, C/O call 20. UTG raise to 80.hero? I think hero is shortest stack, so he should shove. The other two villains might shove behind to build a side pot. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I don't like the weak lead on the flop. What is the hero trying to represent? "I have JJ and I hate this flop. Did everybody miss this coordinated broadway flop? And if so, could I have the pot please? Oh wait, I flat call that big reraise." I play this hand fast regardless, but I can't really see continuing with any sort of deception after that lead.What's the villain supposed to make of a big raise OOP, weak lead a scary flop with an ace, and then a flat call? Are we trying to sell a draw there?Without knowing which players are the donks, I bet more on the flop and reraise the flop as played. AINEC, imho. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 I don't like the weak lead on the flop. What is the hero trying to represent? "I have JJ and I hate this flop. Did everybody miss this coordinated broadway flop? And if so, could I have the pot please? Oh wait, I flat call that big reraise." I play this hand fast regardless, but I can't really see continuing with any sort of deception after that lead.What's the villain supposed to make of a big raise OOP, weak lead a scary flop with an ace, and then a flat call? Are we trying to sell a draw there?Without knowing which players are the donks, I bet more on the flop and reraise the flop as played. AINEC, imho.I agree with all of this. Your hand is AK at worst and more likely AA or KK if you do that weak lead crap and then continue after being raised, so I'd just go ahead and raise ot like $170 total, which is basically a minraise back at the guy who raised you. I think it's a fun move here. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted November 7, 2007 Author Share Posted November 7, 2007 I agree with all of this. Your hand is AK at worst and more likely AA or KK if you do that weak lead crap and then continue after being raised, so I'd just go ahead and raise ot like $170 total, which is basically a minraise back at the guy who raised you. I think it's a fun move here.this wasnt my hand dink, I sat back and watched and tried to see where everyone was at i nthe hand and how i would play things.i posted to see if we're all on the same page. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted November 7, 2007 Share Posted November 7, 2007 this wasnt my hand dink, I sat back and watched and tried to see where everyone was at i nthe hand and how i would play things.i posted to see if we're all on the same page.So sorry I referred to "you" instead of "hero." Does it really make a difference? Link to post Share on other sites
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