Two Overs + Gs; Raise Or Call

[ActionFalko 0]

OK, why do I play $NL50??? I sometimes get bored playing $NL25. But I know I don't have the bankroll for it, but I do it sometimes to get a mix in it.AND I found surprisingly, that the players on NL$50 and above are soemwhat worse than in the levels down. Has anyone of you has seen the same...?OK to the hand. I am not that great at remembering peoples tendencies, but as far as I know, all the players played somehow straightforward.UTG limps ($50 Stack) MP limps ($3.50 Stack) very very short I limp on Button with :D ($50)SB raises to $1.50 ($25)BB calls ($35)UTG callsMP callsI callPot: $7.50 (5 players)Flop: :9hSB checks BB checksUTG checksMP goes All-In for 2$Hero?Hero thinks, that everyone has missed. In the last couple of hands, anybody who hit something (a draw, a pair...) bet out. So I put MP on a hand like A8, A9Now I have BDFD, Two Overs plus a GS to the nuts and getiing 4,75:1 pot odds.I think I get the right price to continue by the pott odds alone. What is my best play here? Raise to isolate and to go heads-up vs MP or call to improve my pott odds for my lackluster hand, hoping that somebody comes in behind me. Or do I fold because right now I have nothing and don't know exactly if somebody behind me plans to trap?All comments welcome.

[No_Neck 0]

I call here, you have a weak drawing hand but most of your hands you are drawing to are the nuts, so why not let a big stack in?Folding is of course exceptable.

[Scott3705 0]

call and fold if some one wakes up behind you. standardish.

[ActionFalko 0]

standardish.

Not for me. Thats why Im asking stuff like that. Thanks for the help guys.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Raise to $7 to isolate

[No_Neck 0]

Raise to $7 to isolate

why? doesn't make sense to me.

[mtdesmoines 3]

OK, why do I play $NL50??? I sometimes get bored playing $NL25. But I know I don't have the bankroll for it, but I do it sometimes to get a mix in it.AND I found surprisingly, that the players on NL$50 and above are soemwhat worse than in the levels down. Has anyone of you has seen the same...?OK to the hand. I am not that great at remembering peoples tendencies, but as far as I know, all the players played somehow straightforward.UTG limps ($50 Stack) MP limps ($3.50 Stack) very very short I limp on Button with :D ($50)SB raises to $1.50 ($25)BB calls ($35)UTG callsMP callsI callPot: $7.50 (5 players)Flop: :9hSB checks BB checksUTG checksMP goes All-In for 2$Hero?Hero thinks, that everyone has missed. In the last couple of hands, anybody who hit something (a draw, a pair...) bet out. So I put MP on a hand like A8, A9Now I have BDFD, Two Overs plus a GS to the nuts and getiing 4,75:1 pot odds.I think I get the right price to continue by the pott odds alone. What is my best play here? Raise to isolate and to go heads-up vs MP or call to improve my pott odds for my lackluster hand, hoping that somebody comes in behind me. Or do I fold because right now I have nothing and don't know exactly if somebody behind me plans to trap?All comments welcome.

Call. You don't have anything yet. There's no reason to isolate. The only way you make money here is letting someone who actually has something (a hand AND money) come along.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

why? doesn't make sense to me.

In most cases we have 10 outs against the all in, in some cases we have seven, and in some cases we have 4. I'd call it an average of 8 outs which means we beat him around a third of the time, enough where we're getting the right price to play him heads up.If we get all folds, which we most likely will, great, let's gamble and leave the others with the wtf face for metagame.If we get a raise, cuss, yell, and fold.If we get a call, he'll probably check the next street, and I'm pushing no matter what hits. If I have air and he folds, and he asks why, tell him you wanted to freeroll against the all in. If he calls I plan to hit whatever outs I have.If we get a call, then a bet into us and we've missed... cuss, yell, and fold.Also, with the calling line, what happens if we get a call behind us and we miss? Or better yet, what happens if we get a call behind us, a Q hits, and we're bet into?

[Scott3705 0]

Also, with the calling line, what happens if we get a call behind us and we miss? Or better yet, what happens if we get a call behind us, a Q hits, and we're bet into?

Fold. obv.what happens if we get a call behind us, a 10 hits, and we're bet into? What if we get a call, and blank both streets going check check? What if....?I understand what you're trying to do with the raise. I just think it's a misguided play. Cleaning up outs is more of a LHE concept than a NL concept. If anyone behind has something that's beating you, you're probably hearing from it whether you call or raise. With both of the blinds short, they are likely moving on top pair + and not overcalling with an 8. So the raise isn't running anyone out that isn't leaving anyone and you're bet/folding into a hand that you could have call/folded to.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Fold. obv.what happens if we get a call behind us, a 10 hits, and we're bet into? What if we get a call, and blank both streets going check check? What if....?I understand what you're trying to do with the raise. I just think it's a misguided play. Cleaning up outs is more of a LHE concept than a NL concept. If anyone behind has something that's beating you, you're probably hearing from it whether you call or raise. With both of the blinds short, they are likely moving on top pair + and not overcalling with an 8. So the raise isn't running anyone out that isn't leaving anyone and you're bet/folding into a hand that you could have call/folded to.

I disagree... calling 2 dollars into a 9+ dollar pot opens up their range drastically.

[Scott3705 0]

I disagree... calling 2 dollars into a 9+ dollar pot opens up their range drastically.

Anything less than top pair is giving us 2 free cards here. So we're not opening up ourselves to a raise from anything that isn't raising our smooth call.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Anything less than top pair is giving us 2 free cards here. So we're not opening up ourselves to a raise from anything that isn't raising our smooth call.

Then I guess I'm just Nuts... but only temporarily

[mtdesmoines 3]

I disagree... calling 2 dollars into a 9+ dollar pot opens up EVERYONE'S range drastically.

FYPIf we pair the board along the way, I'm betting ...

[ghoti 0]

...If we get a call, he'll probably check the next street, and I'm pushing no matter what hits. If I have air and he folds, and he asks why, tell him you wanted to freeroll against the all in. If he calls I plan to hit whatever outs I have.

I <3 this plan. (never seems to work for me tho )What I would probably do in this situation is get confused and default fold. Having time to consider and read all the discussion, I tend to favour the call. Everyone else has shown no interest in the flop and according to op that generally means missed flop. I wonder what we put SB on and what is he likely to do? Nothing and fold regardless of our action? or Monster and check-raise regardless of our action?

[NoBBiR 0]

Raise to $7 to isolate

So what's your plan against a raise, say a minraise behind us? All this does is start to get us sticky to a bad drawing hand. Yes we have a good number of outs against top pairs that don't contain a J or Q, but against someone else who starts to play, we're in bad shape. Also we don't have anything right now. I think we're sitting on about an average of 5-6 outs in actuality, depending on if someone else continues the hand behind us, and that doesn't sound +EV to me.I'd call and hope no one wants to come in behind me. It's fine to play this hand heads up, but if it gets to threeway, we could be in for trouble.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

So what's your plan against a raise, say a minraise behind us? All this does is start to get us sticky to a bad drawing hand. Yes we have a good number of outs against top pairs that don't contain a J or Q, but against someone else who starts to play, we're in bad shape. Also we don't have anything right now. I think we're sitting on about an average of 5-6 outs in actuality, depending on if someone else continues the hand behind us, and that doesn't sound +EV to me.I'd call and hope no one wants to come in behind me. It's fine to play this hand heads up, but if it gets to threeway, we could be in for trouble.

In most cases we have 10 outs against the all in, in some cases we have seven, and in some cases we have 4. I'd call it an average of 8 outs which means we beat him around a third of the time, enough where we're getting the right price to play him heads up.If we get all folds, which we most likely will, great, let's gamble and leave the others with the wtf face for metagame.If we get a raise, cuss, yell, and fold.If we get a call, he'll probably check the next street, and I'm pushing no matter what hits. If I have air and he folds, and he asks why, tell him you wanted to freeroll against the all in. If he calls I plan to hit whatever outs I have.If we get a call, then a bet into us and we've missed... cuss, yell, and fold.Also, with the calling line, what happens if we get a call behind us and we miss? Or better yet, what happens if we get a call behind us, a Q hits, and we're bet into?

[NoBBiR 0]

In most cases we have 10 outs against the all in, in some cases we have seven, and in some cases we have 4. I'd call it an average of 8 outs which means we beat him around a third of the time, enough where we're getting the right price to play him heads up.If we get all folds, which we most likely will, great, let's gamble and leave the others with the wtf face for metagame.If we get a raise, cuss, yell, and fold.If we get a call, he'll probably check the next street, and I'm pushing no matter what hits. If I have air and he folds, and he asks why, tell him you wanted to freeroll against the all in. If he calls I plan to hit whatever outs I have.If we get a call, then a bet into us and we've missed... cuss, yell, and fold.Also, with the calling line, what happens if we get a call behind us and we miss? Or better yet, what happens if we get a call behind us, a Q hits, and we're bet into?

Why raise then if we just plan to cuss yell and fold? I don't get your spew reasoning sir. A lot of this reasoning and explanation puts us in a lot of tricky situations on the turn card, which I'm not happy about. Also, pushing any turn if you get a call behind is stupid, TP is the nuts to these people.And metagame is pretty much a waste of money at 50 max - everyone either 6+ tables, or are fishes anyway.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Why raise then if we just plan to cuss yell and fold? I don't get your spew reasoning sir. A lot of this reasoning and explanation puts us in a lot of tricky situations on the turn card, which I'm not happy about. Also, pushing any turn if you get a call behind is stupid, TP is the nuts to these people.And metagame is pretty much a waste of money at 50 max - everyone either 6+ tables, or are fishes anyway.

Do people really think I'm this stupid?

[NoBBiR 0]

Do people really think I'm this stupid?

Well, are you? It's what you wrote. Should I go by what I know about you from our long history of personal meetings instead?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Well, are you? It's what you wrote. Should I go by what I know about you from our personal meetings instead?

What do you think convinced the OP to just call more? The solid logical explanation behind calling... or the flagrantly obviously flawed argument that was written in a manner to point out the flaws for raising?So, yes, yes I am that stupid. In fact I'm stupiderlyesteder than that.