Jumbo Jet With No Real Destination

[Royal_Tour 0]

Hero just moved to a new 1/2 NL table, max buyin is 200. Played about 15 hands.hero has 700Villain covers. (villain is a young guy, but I havent seen him play anything yet, 1 or 2 pots, he wasnt active, hasnt said much. No reads)hero is C/0 with 5 7 UTG limp, Villain in MP limps, LP limps, hero limps, sb complete, BB check.pot (12)flop 7 7 4 UTG check, villain bet 5. LP fold, hero raise to 15. sb fold, bb fold. UTG fold, villain re-raise to 50.hero?what do I really beat here besides a bluff / semi-bluff? i dont put him on any over pair, except maybe 88,99. even those i think he is raising preflop.7,3 and 7,2 are not hands i expect him to play.SD or FD i cant see him re-poping here OOP unless its a semi-bluff.

[David_Nicoson 1]

There are two opposing considerations:

• There's a lot of money left to be played, the pot's small, and we could be crushed. (I'm not going to say, "Don't go broke in a limped pot," because someone hates that advice, IIRC.)
• We have a good hand on a suited board. Our opponent may be overplaying a hand for which he believes he has outs to pair his overcards to go with flush outs.

Including an overpair in his range increases our equity significantly.

Board: 7c 7h 4cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 43.191% 36.63% 	06.56% 			  3989 		  714.50   { 7d5d }Hand 1: 56.809% 50.25% 	06.56% 			  5472 		  714.50   { 77, 44, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, A7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 6c5c }------  16,830  games	 0.010 secs	 1,683,000  games/secBoard: 7c 7h 4cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 59.551%  55.31% 	04.25% 			  9308 		  714.50   { 7d5d }Hand 1: 40.449%  36.20% 	04.25% 			  6093 		  714.50   { 88-77, 44, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, A7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 6c5c }

[krup24 0]

tough handwhat can we beat?88-JJ, straight draw, flush drawvillian is OOP so this makes his raise a bit more interesting IMO cause if we call he pretty much has to strong bet the turn as well. i really don't know if there is an optimal line if we are readless. I think there can be arguments to fold, call, or shove. I have absolutely no answers on this one. If I'm gonna lean one way I'm gonna call, try to keep the pot small and see what he does on the turn.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hero just moved to a new 1/2 NL table, max buyin is 200. Played about 15 hands.hero has 700Villain covers. (villain is a young guy, but I havent seen him play anything yet, 1 or 2 pots, he wasnt active, hasnt said much. No reads)hero is C/0 with 5 7 UTG limp, Villain in MP limps, LP limps, hero limps, sb complete, BB check.pot (12)flop 7 7 4 UTG check, villain bet 5. LP fold, hero raise to 15. sb fold, bb fold. UTG fold, villain re-raise to 50.hero?what do I really beat here besides a bluff / semi-bluff? i dont put him on any over pair, except maybe 88,99. even those i think he is raising preflop.7,3 and 7,2 are not hands i expect him to play.SD or FD i cant see him re-poping here OOP unless its a semi-bluff.

I make a couple of assumptions here. First, I assume that you've made a couple quick moves to get from $200 to $700 (at my local casino, when you move tables, you only get to bring one buy in to the table). Also, when I see someone previously not active start waking up on the flop, they could be thinking to themselves, "I can't raise my big hand PF now, everyone will know I have a big hand and simply fold; so I'll be tricky and limp it."But I do like the way you've reasoned through this. All that being said, I don't fold here, I smooth call and watch how this board and the betting matures. We could slow him way down by calling. And we both go 350 BB deep -- frankly, he has to push harder when I've flopped trips with a draw to the stone cold boat to make me release it. I definitely think this is 50-50 that villain has overs. Call and see.

[Scott3705 0]

fold. You beat worse sevens. Craziness if he shows up with a str8 flush draw, but completely limped pot, this is a quick fold for me as would be a flopped flush with the same action.

[David_Nicoson 1]

What % of the flops would you say have been limped? At a mildly aggressive table, there's not much a guy should be playing in EP that hits this flop.

[mtdesmoines 3]

More discussion on this hand, please. It's interesting in that it's a very strong hand for the hero, there's an unknown villain providing resistance that's making us think, and the pot could get very deep. That, and the fact that I'm sure that Royal did something utterly donkalicious in the end.

[tskillz187 0]

I'd call. We are both deep, our call is pretty scary and we have position to try and get some more info on him with the next card. Plus I want a shot at peeling the 5 and turning the absolute nuts.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I'd call. We are both deep, our call is pretty scary and we have position to try and get some more info on him with the next card. Plus I want a shot at peeling the 5 and turning the absolute nuts.

You know what it smells like to me? Fours over sevens. I keep peeling cheap cards.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

This reeks of a flopped boat 7-7-4-4-4... his probe bet wasn't even half the pot. Sounds like "hey, did anybody hit that seven?"Call, look at him funny, and proceed with caution.

[mtdesmoines 3]

This reeks of a flopped boat 7-7-4-4-4... his probe bet wasn't even half the pot. Sounds like "hey, did anybody hit that seven?"Call, look at him funny, and proceed with caution.

Ha. Beecha.

[tskillz187 0]

You know what it smells like to me? Fours over sevens. I keep peeling cheap cards.

That's why we peel the 5. Duh. Our hand is too strong to fold without more info, and it's stupid to get this info on the flop by raising and getting shoved on, when we could have gotten more info with another card peeling.I'm very rarely folding trips in a 1-2nl game, especially when a draw is present. I think my standard line goes, call flop $50 bet, call $100 on turn, and probably fold if he chucks another $150+ bet on the river at me.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Ha. Beecha.

:(good to know people can come to the same conclusion unbias though

[Scott3705 0]

I don't like the back and forth thinking of calling for the implied odds of hitting a 5 and having to win an incremental $600 to make a profitable call and calling behind to see if he's really that strong. If I was dead sure, he had 44, I'd peel. if I was wishy washy (which we all seem to be) I can't call because I might not have the implied odds I think I do. The 5 could stop our action against A7, 78 or he might have a draw and be done with the hand which some think (I don't.) I think he has either 44, A7, 78,79, 67. I think you're crushed here most of the time, but I can't call for implied odds just because I could be wrong more than 5% of the time.

[Acid_Knight 2]

While folding is ok here given how deep we are, I think a call is necessary. We do have a strong hand. We do have position. We do have outs to split or win the pot if we're behind.I think I call and reevaluate the turn.

[mtdesmoines 3]

While folding is ok here given how deep we are, I think a call is necessary. We do have a strong hand. We do have position. We do have outs to split or win the pot if we're behind.I think I call and reevaluate the turn.

No one thinks villain could have limped overs?

[tskillz187 0]

No one thinks villain could have limped overs?

Yeah, I think he could have a whole lot of stuff, that's why I'm calling and reevaulating the turn. If he turns the 2 outter oh well, I'll let that happen to me the 1:19.8 times it does.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

No one thinks villain could have limped overs?

I think he could have limped overs, but I really doubt a player who's managed to get so deep stacked makes such a weak probe bet with overs. His initial flop bet is what really gives away the strength of his hand.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I think he could have limped overs, but I really doubt a player who's managed to get so deep stacked makes such a weak probe bet with overs. His initial flop bet is what really gives away the strength of his hand.

Just last weekend, I watched some guy run up a $2,000 stack in a $1/$2/$300 NL game in about 2 hours. He was running insane ... he caught three backdoor draws on me that I sniffed out and didn't pay off. I just shook my head. Everyone else paid him off. Then he started missing and everyone else starting hitting on him. He busted at the four hour mark almost exactly and took one of the saddest walks out of the door that I've ever seen. Keep your eyes open at the poker table. You'll always see a story developing.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I make a couple of assumptions here. First, I assume that you've made a couple quick moves to get from $200 to $700 (at my local casino, when you move tables, you only get to bring one buy in to the table).

I had been there for 10 hours. I just switched tables, thats allat our casino, when u switch tables but are in the same game, u have to bring all your chips. you have to wait an hour to sit down with 200 again.

Just last weekend, I watched some guy run up a $2,000 stack in a $1/$2/$300 NL game in about 2 hours. He was running insane ... he caught three backdoor draws on me that I sniffed out and didn't pay off. I just shook my head. Everyone else paid him off. Then he started missing and everyone else starting hitting on him. He busted at the four hour mark almost exactly and took one of the saddest walks out of the door that I've ever seen. Keep your eyes open at the poker table. You'll always see a story developing.

The villain had been there for about 6 or 7 hours. i remember seeing him walk in with a few friends. 1 of his friends is a regular who i said "hey" too.

[Royal_Tour 0]

tough handwhat can we beat?88-JJ, straight draw, flush drawvillian is OOP so this makes his raise a bit more interesting IMO cause if we call he pretty much has to strong bet the turn as well. i really don't know if there is an optimal line if we are readless. I think there can be arguments to fold, call, or shove. I have absolutely no answers on this one. If I'm gonna lean one way I'm gonna call, try to keep the pot small and see what he does on the turn.

thats what went through my mind.I thought about my different lines in this spot. Calling and seeing a K or A hit the turn does nothing for me, and if villain fires out 100, where am i at that point?

[krup24 0]

I thought about my different lines in this spot. Calling and seeing a K or A hit the turn does nothing for me, and if villain fires out 100, where am i at that point?

your still in a tough spot. there isn't gonna really be any easy ones in this hand. If an A or K hits, he can easily hold Ax or Kxc and will still come out strong on you. If would bet $100 on the turn if you call the flop raise I think I would call behind again. Again there can be arguments for folding, shoving, calling. to to sum it up it really gets no easier unless he checks you the turn if you call which I really really don't see happening too often.

[mtdesmoines 3]

thats what went through my mind.I thought about my different lines in this spot. Calling and seeing a K or A hit the turn does nothing for me, and if villain fires out 100, where am i at that point?

Gotta be honest ... I like overs hitting this board. If villain does have fours and board pairs overs, we counterfeit his 444/77 with 777/oo, etc. If villain has 67 or 78, overs like a K and Q also counterfiet his kicker. Villain also sees a two pair hand if his continuation bet AQ overs connect, ala AA77Q, and he puts more chips in. A five is a dream card, because we can get very aggressive and the nuts are almost completely hidden here and the villain comes along if he DOES happen to have a big hand.Bottom line is this: we don't know where we are in this hand, so we need to keep peeling and evaluating. Worst turn cards in the deck: 8 or 6 ... without a doubt.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Gotta be honest ... I like overs hitting this board. If villain does have fours and board pairs overs, we counterfeit his 444/77 with 777/oo, etc. If villain has 67 or 78, overs like a K and Q also counterfiet his kicker. Villain also sees a two pair hand if his continuation bet AQ overs connect, ala AA77Q, and he puts more chips in. A five is a dream card, because we can get very aggressive and the nuts are almost completely hidden here and the villain comes along if he DOES happen to have a big hand.Bottom line is this: we don't know where we are in this hand, so we need to keep peeling and evaluating. Worst turn cards in the deck: 8 or 6 ... without a doubt.

thats a horrible way to play NL.you cant seriously want to pray on overs hitting and pairing so we're more comfortable with our 7's. I'm not gonna invest money to chop.

[psujohn 0]

Without a read the villain is an aggrodonk this is a clear fold in my mind. The vast majority of what he does this with has us drawing to 3 outs.