pdr87 0 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Ok, I know I shouldn't have been in this hand in the first place. The table was playing very tight. Villain is probably the loosest player on the table. I have the odds in my favour to call here right?Edit: He has done these preflop pushes a few times before, with no callers.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem TournamentBlinds: t60/t1207 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: t2645UTG+1: t1770MP1: t1000CO: t2155Button: t2690SB: t1250BB: t1990Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is UTG with Q J Hero raises to t360, UTG+1 folds, MP1 raises all-in t1000, 4 folds, Hero..? Link to post Share on other sites
eYank 0 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Fold, you still have over 2200 chips which is 2nd @ the table and you shouldnt risk all that when you are @ best 50/50 proabably worse Link to post Share on other sites
cdannons 0 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Mathematically, you absolutely have the odds to call. However, tournaments are not all math. You have a good stack, and a call here would jepordize that. These 9 man games are all about playin tight and holding on to your chips. Just let it go and let him go brok another hand. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 When you say he's done these preflop pushes before, were they open-pushes or push-reraises? That could be a vital piece of information... Link to post Share on other sites
pdr87 0 Posted September 4, 2007 Author Share Posted September 4, 2007 When you say he's done these preflop pushes before, were they open-pushes or push-reraises? That could be a vital piece of information...Reraises. Link to post Share on other sites
cdannons 0 Posted September 4, 2007 Share Posted September 4, 2007 Althought yes, it is techincally a vital piece of information, everything matters, I really don't care about it, I'm folding. Forget the math, the guy is gonna go broke all on his own. Don't risk your tournament! You would need to get VERY lucky jsut to be a 2-1 favorite. The chances are, you're either in the wrong side of a coinflip, up against AK, or you're dominated. Honestly, I would feel bad about making the call even if I KNEW I was a 2-1 favorite. Of course, I would have to make it, but I wouldn't like it. There is simply no reason to risk your tournament, especially if you feel you are one of the better players at the table. Link to post Share on other sites
jmbreslin 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Actually, what's interesting is that Hero admits he shouldn't be in the hand in the first place but is then considering calling a large push-reraise. Doesn't that seem a bit contradictory? Link to post Share on other sites
loxo 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Althought yes, it is techincally a vital piece of information, everything matters, I really don't care about it, I'm folding. Forget the math, the guy is gonna go broke all on his own. Don't risk your tournament! You would need to get VERY lucky jsut to be a 2-1 favorite. The chances are, you're either in the wrong side of a coinflip, up against AK, or you're dominated. Honestly, I would feel bad about making the call even if I KNEW I was a 2-1 favorite. Of course, I would have to make it, but I wouldn't like it. There is simply no reason to risk your tournament, especially if you feel you are one of the better players at the table.Why in the world would you ever feel bad calling when you're a 2-1 fav?Why in the world would you ever feel bad calling when you're a 2-1 fav AND you're getting 2.5 to 1 on your money? Link to post Share on other sites
StupidKid 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Why in the world would you ever feel bad calling when you're a 2-1 fav?Why in the world would you ever feel bad calling when you're a 2-1 fav AND you're getting 2.5 to 1 on your money?It's the classic "tournament life" argument. The philly H argument... Link to post Share on other sites
loxo 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 It's the classic "tournament life" argument. The philly H argument...Crazy, esp since in this instance our tournament life is not even at risk. Link to post Share on other sites
NEtwowilldo 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 You know your real mistake in the hand was raising QJ off UTG, so why even bother posting? You know what you did wrong.Easily dominated hand + OOP = lose money Link to post Share on other sites
cdannons 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Crazy, esp since in this instance our tournament life is not even at risk.Well I said I woudl make the call, I just don't like having my tournament life at risk when I'm only a 2-1 favorite. Yes, I'm calling, but I may very well by getting knocked out, and I'm not happy about that Link to post Share on other sites
cdannons 0 Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 It's the classic "tournament life" argument. The philly H argument...Exactly, we can all learn something from Phil Hellmuth about holdem tournaments Link to post Share on other sites
loxo 0 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Well I said I woudl make the call, I just don't like having my tournament life at risk when I'm only a 2-1 favorite. Yes, I'm calling, but I may very well by getting knocked out, and I'm not happy about thatAgain, in this instance we can't be knocked out. Link to post Share on other sites
StupidKid 0 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Well I said I woudl make the call, I just don't like having my tournament life at risk when I'm only a 2-1 favorite. Yes, I'm calling, but I may very well by getting knocked out, and I'm not happy about thatIn an MTT??In a sng I can kinda understand...So if you're in the BB with AK and the SB shows you QJ and then shoves on you (you have equal stacks), you'd fold? Link to post Share on other sites
hockey fan 0 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Actually, what's interesting is that Hero admits he shouldn't be in the hand in the first place but is then considering calling a large push-reraise. Doesn't that seem a bit contradictory?Yes, but I think he meant that considering the villian in this case was pulling this same re-raise all-in preflop, he figured he was likely ahead of what he considered a wide range. The fact that the villian never had to show any of these hands, makes this tricky though....I think I agree with NEtwowilldo though, it should have been folded preflop. As played, at best 2-1, at worst dominated or crushed. It averages out to basically a coin-flip for almost half your stack. I think I fold and look for a better spot. Link to post Share on other sites
cdannons 0 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Again, in this instance we can't be knocked out. Ok, sorry, but i'm still not risking that many chips on this, it's just not good poker, if you feel the need to call this, than you probably aren't much better than everybody else in the field. These guys in the small stakes tournaments give away chips left and right in much better situations. There is no need to risk your stack on this Link to post Share on other sites
StupidKid 0 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 In an MTT??In a sng I can kinda understand...So if you're in the BB with AK and the SB shows you QJ and then shoves on you (you have equal stacks), you'd fold?Askin Cdannons....Thoughts = Appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites
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