Tiger Woods

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

And regardless of where you come from, you know how to act. If you're poor, your mother still told you to dress sharp for church or something, didn't she? Common sense dictates wearing (at the very least) a dress shirt and slacks when appearing in court, yet I see more jeans and tee shirts than ever. Haven't you ever cursed in public and had someone say something to you or give you a dirty look? Flip on TV to "The Apprentice" (I just use it as it's supposedly a business related show, personally I've never watched it) and you'll see Trump and his corporate cronies in suits. You can pick up knowledge on 'acting right' anywhere, so I'm not buying this "You have to come from it" mentality.I think it very simply breaks down to you are what you want to be. If you want to act like a thug, you will. If you want to act like an upstanding citizen, you will. If you want to work and better yourself, you will. If you want to run with the same ole same ole, you will. It's not difficult. I saw you mentioned Vick, and I want to defend him a bit. He's actually a very nice, well spoken man (I met him when he was at Tech...by met I mean we shared about three sentences before he moved on so we didn't exchange baby pictures of our kids, but you get the drift) that worked hard to get to the NFL. His brother is actually the troublemaker of the family and deserves Mike's image. Anyway, Mike Vick brought himself down by keeping his former environment. I think a lot of athletes need to look at his situation and realize that's the stuff you get into by keeping old friends and staying true to old neighborhoods.

Funny post on many level. First off, the part I bolded kind of shows how out of touch you are with the reality of many people's lives from the inner cities. A great deal of the problem is parenting, bad parents, drug addicted and criminal parents. absent parents. Or parents just really, really poor having to work long hours, and not being around to control a kid. " You can pick up knowledge of acting right anywhere" Um.. .really? So you just pick up moral, socially responsible behavior by osmosis and by watching TV? Really? Do you think that Donald Trump has more impact on a kid's life, or his social and peer group? How a person learns behavoir. is a complex psychological process, stemming from the physical make up of the brain, and the way the environment conditions you. The type of envirnmental pressure that conditions behavior is not a couple tv shows on TV, or the dirty looks of old people. Family, Friends, and schools are the top 3 things that effect a child's behavior. Media has some effect, but do you imagine that an inner city youth is more effected by hip-hop music or the apprentice? Changing a person's dress, a person's speech and speech patterns, a person's general behavior takes time, guidance and hard work, not pop cultural osmosis. You naive statements just tell me you have exactly zero knowledge of behavior acquisition. Saying stuff like " if you want to act like a thug, you will, if you want to change, yo uwill, it's not difficult" is extremly ignorant. It is difficult. Very. People who rise above their negative environmental conditions should be praised and studied, because it is a rare feat. I agree that Michael Vick is an extremely interesting case, and shows that this whole issue isn't as black and white ( metaphorically not racially) as you're trying to make it. Vick has good qualities, has done good things for his community. But in the end, he couldn't rise above the influence of where he came from, and paid an immense price for it. There's a element of Greek tragedy to Vick. But then, then after attacking whole cultures and races of people for their behavior, after agreeing with me that people like Bob Huggins should be punished for the way they run their program, after dercrying the way the NBA lets players run wild, you say this....

I cannot defend PacMan, nor do I wish to. I just want him to shut down Moss and bring a Super Bowl back to Dallas. Short of that, I have no use for him.

Hypocrisy, it's whats for dinner.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm not going to argue Tiger came from the roughest neighborhood, but his daddy was in the military so they weren't exactly living on Hollywood Blvd. Like most inner city kids, Tiger wasn't allowed to play at country clubs. He actually had it worse than kids today do - he wasn't allowed alot of places because he was black, not because he lacked the coin. Tiger doesn't share anything with inner city kids because he doesn't want to. Furthermore, I think his daddy brought him up in a military tradition so 'thugging' wasn't really an option for young Tigre.LeBron was a freak as a kid who got noticed and took a scholarship to a private school. Also, I heard his mother being interviewed recently and she's actually fairly well spoken. I think LeBron probably came from a good home (note good home doesn't mean a mansion somewhere, he just had a good mother that brought him up right) and had a good quality educational life.What do we have in common? Two parents who cared deeply about their children and arguably spent more quality time 'parenting' than 'coaching', though both of these are much better than just 'ignoring'.

First off, "having it worse" in the sense that you're excluded from a golf course is some how more of a challenge to over come than being raised by a drug addicted single mother in abject poverty? That's a lil silly, no?From the bolded, It had nothing to do with him "wanting to" and everything with how he was raised. Don't you see the difference? Don't you see that these kids have extremely terrible backgrounds, that most of them don't have father figures at all in their lives, much less military once that help train them for success? I think we both agree that parenting is a huge part of the problem here. I personally would support a government program that would pay people 1000 bucks to get a vasectomy/ have their tubes tied. Most of the world problems boil down to bad people have too many kids, who almost inevitably turn out bad.

[Jadaki 0]

I'm not going to argue Tiger came from the roughest neighborhood, but his daddy was in the military so they weren't exactly living on Hollywood Blvd. Like most inner city kids, Tiger wasn't allowed to play at country clubs. He actually had it worse than kids today do - he wasn't allowed alot of places because he was black, not because he lacked the coin. Tiger doesn't share anything with inner city kids because he doesn't want to. Furthermore, I think his daddy brought him up in a military tradition so 'thugging' wasn't really an option for young Tigre.LeBron was a freak as a kid who got noticed and took a scholarship to a private school. Also, I heard his mother being interviewed recently and she's actually fairly well spoken. I think LeBron probably came from a good home (note good home doesn't mean a mansion somewhere, he just had a good mother that brought him up right) and had a good quality educational life.What do we have in common? Two parents who cared deeply about their children and arguably spent more quality time 'parenting' than 'coaching', though both of these are much better than just 'ignoring'.

I'm going to clue you in real quick, saying a black person is "well spoken" is ridiculously racist. It also shoes that BigD is right about how out of touch you are.

[serge 904]

Leave it to Tiger to stir up a debate about the inner workings of the racial debate in America..Poor guy just wants to win tournaments.

[serge 904]

I'm going to clue you in real quick, saying a black person is "well spoken" is ridiculously racist. It also shoes that BigD is right about how out of touch you are.

agreed..Have you heard how some of those RACISTS southern boys talk..Their grammar and english is brutal..The same guys who didnt allow guys like Tiger to play in their prestigious country clubs.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Leave it to Tiger to stir up a debate about the inner workings of the racial debate in America..Poor guy just wants to win tournaments.

I agree. I don't know how I get thrown into these things, I love Tiger for being a great golfer, I see no need to project any other kind of cultural responsibility onto him.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

agreed..Have you heard how some of those RACISTS southern boys talk..Their grammar and english is brutal..The same guys who didnt allow guys like Tiger to play in their prestigious country clubs.

See the kind of thing I get embroiled in when I'm not cheering on the stangs? Damn you, Cheap Theives!

[serge 904]

See the kind of thing I get embroiled in when I'm not cheering on the stangs? Damn you, Cheap Theives!

lol...FYI Thieves lost their first game in the first round handily..

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm going to clue you in real quick, saying a black person is "well spoken" is ridiculously racist. It also shoes that BigD is right about how out of touch you are.

see, saying "well spoken" isn't ridiculously racist, just racist. Saying "actually fairly" infront of the "well spoken" is what pushes it over the top into ridiculousness.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

lol...FYI Thieves lost their first game in the first round handily..

I've lost track of the AHL now that the Stangs are out, it just makes me sick. DN's going to get his comeuppance for his Hubris and disrespect in the Stangs series. On a side note, I've resolved to watch playoff hockey, if they show any one my cable channels. I always enjoyed playoff hockey in college.

[Jadaki 0]

see, saying "well spoken" isn't ridiculously racist, just racist. Saying "actually fairly" infront of the "well spoken" is what pushes it over the top into ridiculousness.

Technicalities sir.Speaking of which, my spell checker tells me infront should be two words.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Technicalities sir.Speaking of which, my spell checker tells me infront should be two words.

yes and yes. No one said I was well spoken. And I just wanted to pile on a bit with you, I let the Well spoken thing slip, and was trying to make up for it.

[jmh06 0]

I'm going to clue you in real quick, saying a black person is "well spoken" is ridiculously racist. It also shoes that BigD is right about how out of touch you are.

I'm going to clue you in - you're a moron. Saying someone is well spoken is not racist. It's a compliment to their education and upbringing. I don't think there's anything racist about complimenting someone on their ability to speak clearly and concisely. I live in NC and very few people down here, white or black, I'd consider well spoken as their southern dialect and drawl greatly detracts from it. Lot of 'ain't' and curses in common speech. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, hell it's starting to rub off on me a little bit.You want a non-well spoken white guy? Take Bush. He is what he is, a very simple man with a fairly simple vocabulary. He gets in trouble when he tries to use words he's not familiar with.Unfortunately, far too many people take 'racism' way out of the context of the term. Racism isn't your free card you get to play when you have no other argument. Racism is making some sort of derogatory joke about Tiger Woods' speech, which I in no way did. Racism is not hiring someone based on the color of their skin or declining to serve someone based on the color of their skin. Racism is believing one race is better than another. If you would kindly explain to me how I have insinuated that one race is better than the other I would greatly appreciate it.I'll apologize if I've offended anyone, but Jesus Christ I was trying to pay the guy a compliment.

[serge 904]

I'm going to clue you in - you're a moron. Saying someone is well spoken is not racist. It's a compliment to their education and upbringing. I don't think there's anything racist about complimenting someone on their ability to speak clearly and concisely. I live in NC and very few people down here, white or black, I'd consider well spoken as their southern dialect and drawl greatly detracts from it. Lot of 'ain't' and curses in common speech. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, hell it's starting to rub off on me a little bit.You want a non-well spoken white guy? Take Bush. He is what he is, a very simple man with a fairly simple vocabulary. He gets in trouble when he tries to use words he's not familiar with.Unfortunately, far too many people take 'racism' way out of the context of the term. Racism isn't your free card you get to play when you have no other argument. Racism is making some sort of derogatory joke about Tiger Woods' speech, which I in no way did. Racism is not hiring someone based on the color of their skin or declining to serve someone based on the color of their skin. Racism is believing one race is better than another. If you would kindly explain to me how I have insinuated that one race is better than the other I would greatly appreciate it.

I agree with on some of your points..Trying to keep to the thread at hand..There is a guy with a funny name(I forget now) at the Masters, he is a big wig...Well his accent is hilarious..When he says TOURNAMENT it sounds like TUNA MELT..

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm going to clue you in - you're a moron. Saying someone is well spoken is not racist. It's a compliment to their education and upbringing. I don't think there's anything racist about complimenting someone on their ability to speak clearly and concisely. I live in NC and very few people down here, white or black, I'd consider well spoken as their southern dialect and drawl greatly detracts from it. Lot of 'ain't' and curses in common speech. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, hell it's starting to rub off on me a little bit.You want a non-well spoken white guy? Take Bush. He is what he is, a very simple man with a fairly simple vocabulary. He gets in trouble when he tries to use words he's not familiar with.Unfortunately, far too many people take 'racism' way out of the context of the term. Racism isn't your free card you get to play when you have no other argument. Racism is making some sort of derogatory joke about Tiger Woods' speech, which I in no way did. Racism is not hiring someone based on the color of their skin or declining to serve someone based on the color of their skin. Racism is believing one race is better than another. If you would kindly explain to me how I have insinuated that one race is better than the other I would greatly appreciate it.

The point, that you missed, and the reason black people find that kind of thing insulting, is the phrase" That guy is well spoken" is never used for white people. If you interviewed Steve Young's Mom, and She was intelligent, literate, you'd never once take notice of that fact, or bring attention to it. It's something only used for black people, because white people are seemingly so surprised that a black person can speak in complete sentences.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

. Racism is believing one race is better than another.

Nope. That's called " White Supremacy" or " Black Supremacy" The two terms aren't synonyms.

[Jadaki 0]

I'm going to clue you in - you're a moron. Saying someone is well spoken is not racist. It's a compliment to their education and upbringing. I'll apologize if I've offended anyone, but Jesus Christ I was trying to pay the guy a compliment.

I'm going to laugh at your ignorance now... this is why.

The point, that you missed, and the reason black people find that kind of thing insulting, is the phrase" That guy is well spoken" is never used for white people. If you interviewed Steve Young's Mom, and She was intelligent, literate, you'd never once take notice of that fact, or bring attention to it. It's something only used for black people, because white people are seemingly so surprised that a black person can speak in complete sentences.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I'm going to laugh at your ignorance now... this is why.

Just so he doesn't think we're ganging up on him, in the interests of Equal Opportunity flaming..... The big ten sucks.

[Jadaki 0]

Just so he doesn't think we're ganging up on him, in the interests of Equal Opportunity flaming..... The big ten sucks.

You were wrong about Jordan perpetuating a ball hog style of playing basketball, but I let it slide because you were right about everything else. Also because there is already another thread debating that.

[jmh06 0]

The point, that you missed, and the reason black people find that kind of thing insulting, is the phrase" That guy is well spoken" is never used for white people. If you interviewed Steve Young's Mom, and She was intelligent, literate, you'd never once take notice of that fact, or bring attention to it. It's something only used for black people, because white people are seemingly so surprised that a black person can speak in complete sentences.

White people are just as poorly spoken as any other color of skin in the world. Richard Petty was supposed to meet with the Queen of England and he declined, stating, "She speaks English and I speak Southern American so I don't think we'd understand each other too good."I meant being well spoken as more of a testament to his familial upbringing and education and his training to deal with the media. In no way was it meant as a shot against any race.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

You were wrong about Jordan perpetuating a ball hog style of playing basketball, but I let it slide because you were right about everything else. Also because there is already another thread debating that.

I said "originating" And it wasn't really jordan's fault. It's just the next generation of kids, who grew up seeing the early, hyper athletic jordan, and wanted to be the man, wanted to isolate and clear out. It's not so much his fault as the next gen.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

White people are just as poorly spoken as any other color of skin in the world. Richard Petty was supposed to meet with the Queen of England and he declined, stating, "She speaks English and I speak Southern American so I don't think we'd understand each other too good."I meant being well spoken as more of a testament to his familial upbringing and education and his training to deal with the media. In no way was it meant as a shot against any race.

you're too busy being defensive to see the point..

[Jadaki 0]

White people are just as poorly spoken as any other color of skin in the world. Richard Petty was supposed to meet with the Queen of England and he declined, stating, "She speaks English and I speak Southern American so I don't think we'd understand each other too good."I meant being well spoken as more of a testament to his familial upbringing and education and his training to deal with the media. In no way was it meant as a shot against any race.

When you and every other white person starts saying it about other white people, I'll believe it. Every time I have ever heard that phrase it was in regard to a black person.

[El Guapo 8]

This thread is terrible!

[Jadaki 0]

I said "originating" And it wasn't really jordan's fault. It's just the next generation of kids, who grew up seeing the early, hyper athletic jordan, and wanted to be the man, wanted to isolate and clear out. It's not so much his fault as the next gen.

Who doesn't want to be like Mike? Or should that be Tiger now.