Trapping W/ Tptk

[MrNiceGuy 0]

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K. 2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, CO calls.Flop: (7 SB) A, 5, 6(2 players)Hero bets, CO calls.Turn: (4.50 BB) J(2 players)Hero checks, CO bets, Hero pauses and calls.River: (6.50 BB) 6(2 players)Hero CHECKS, PLANNING TO CHECK-RAISE.Final Pot: 10.50 BBIf the river had been a Q or a T, I check/call. As is, if I c/r and get 3-bet, I'm reluctantly calling.Villain is unknown. Ok, or FPS?

[wsox8 10]

if it were me I would have bet the turn, but ISAP.

[CoranMoran 0]

Fancy Shmancy.I don't see how this is more profitable that betting out the whole way.I expect to get called on all streets by any lesser pair.And allowing Villain to take a possible free turn card as soon as the board gets coordinated seems bad.I try not to overthink these TPTK hands.And I value bet the whole way.--CM

[sabes99 0]

what were you trying to accomplish by c/c on the turn? i don't know what good this play does you, you could end up letting a free river come off with two flush draws out therebut since you did make that play, i like the c/r attempt when a safe river comes off

[kkot 0]

I value bet the whole way.

[Skittles 0]

I bet whole way as well. River c/r allows QQ/KK to check through and he might fold it anyway to a c/r. Leading out on this river may confuse him to call with a variety of hands.

[Spence 0]

Don't trap in limit unless the opponent is a maniac, but even then gotta check raise at some point against him.

[mikeysong 0]

really don't like that check on the turn.check on the river is good if you're positive he'll bet it. What happens a lot tho, if you're not sure if villain has the Ace, he'll bet the turn as a bluff and give up on river.

[aim786 0]

Actually, checking the turn is not all that bad in my opinion. However, I really feel that you need to be sure of 2 things before you try this (and you should c/r the turn, not wait till the river):1) Villain is an aggressive player.2) Villain peels the flop loosely.Since you will be giving up on alot of hands on the turn, it is sometimes good to balance that with using the c/r turn line. If the board was A9h8h, I'd be much more inclined to bet the turn than use this play though.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

I'm kind of surprised that almost everyone prefers leading the turn.My thoughts:Villain's range when he calls the flop bet is probably something along the lines of: AQ-A9(perhaps not including suited Ah),KhQh-KhTh, and perhaps 66 and 55.On the turn, that's 21 Ax hands, 5 AJ hands, a few heart draws, and 6 set hands. So I'm still roughly a 2-1 favorite against this range, the majority of which are worse Aces that are way behind.Villain probably suspects I have something along the lines of AK, AA-99, perhaps AQ.Although I don't know villain, I think it's unlikely that he raises the turn or river with a worse hand than mine if I bet out, unless he tries a free showdown raise on the turn.If I check the turn, I imagine he'll suspect I don't have an A, meaning I likely have a big pair, and he'll probably bet the turn and river for value.If I check/raise on the turn, it's possible (though probably unlikely) that he folds a hand like AT or A9, or maybe even AQ. So I decided to wait for the river to make the check/raise, as I expected another bet.Of course, if villain has a flush draw, he may take a free card on the turn. But I think flush draws are probably only a small fraction of his range, and he might semibluff the turn when checked to anyway (I think it's unlikely that he would try a semibluff-raise with the A out there if I bet out again.)

[CoranMoran 0]

Villain's range when he calls the flop bet is probably something along the lines of: AQ-A9(perhaps not including suited Ah),KhQh-KhTh, and perhaps 66 and 55.

My idea of Villain's range is drastically different than this.And it greatly surprises me that you have narrowed an unknown's range so much.I can easily see any Ace-rag or lower pocket pair (KK-77) calling your flop bet.And they will continue to call a turn bet and a river bet.It happens all the time.It is the primaary reason I make money at poker.In fact, I think Villain's range is often even wider than that.Because I have seen some opponents call me down with as little as K5 or 33.Sad but true.--cm

[Zach6668 513]

If we're gonna check the turn, which I don't hate, then we should really just raise the turn. Villains hate that ****, and will almost always call down. I don't remember a time I've c/r'ed the turn and not gotten at least my 2 bets in, and almost always my bet on the river as well.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

My idea of Villain's range is drastically different than this.And it greatly surprises me that you have narrowed an unknown's range so much.

I'm not suggesting that the range I've given villain is complete; I just think that the majority of players I've encountered at 2/4 will have a range something along these lines when they raise from the cutoff, call a 3-bet heads-up in position (rather than cap), and call on this flop. Certainly there are many players out there who could have a wide variety of hands here; some of which my line will make extra money from, and some of which my line will miss a bet (or even two) against.Betting out on the turn and the river is the "safest" line, as it doesn't miss any bets, and it doesn't risk losing more than 3-bets (assuming that we won't opt to 3-bet if raised). I would for sure use this line against known players who raise liberally preflop and then make loose calldowns with weak hands, as well as against players who will not try thin value-bets when checked to.But I'd like to use the line that will be most +EV on average against an unknown. It may be the simple, bet every street line. (I wouldn't have posted the hand if I was sure I knew the best approach.) As you mentioned, there are players who will call down with a small pair or a K-high. However, there are also many players who will take one off on the flop with a weak hand, then fold to further action. So I still think my overall logic is sound.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

If we're gonna check the turn, which I don't hate, then we should really just raise the turn. Villains hate that ****, and will almost always call down. I don't remember a time I've c/r'ed the turn and not gotten at least my 2 bets in, and almost always my bet on the river as well.

I couldn't (and still can't) decide whether it's better to wait for the river or check/raise on the turn. Is waiting for the river more likely to gain me one (or two) bets, or more likely to cost me one (or two) bets? I probably should just raise the turn, as you suggest, because few players will fold top pair in a heads-up pot, and because villain could check behind with a marginal hand (like AT) on a scary river (like a K).