In your example, you're talking about one crappy math guy. That's okay, you're just using a different definition of math guy than I am. Perhaps from your experience, those players who are mathy types tend to pay off too much. But a good math guy will do a decent assessment of the probability you're bluffing, and not just call everytime with anything just because they're getting 10-1. And just to nitpick, if you're betting a quarter of the pot, you're giving him 5-1 on the call :wink: I'm just playing around here, depends on your definition of pot. I'm pretty sure you're aware of pot