Overcard To The Ladies Inposition

[Shark527 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($11.85)BB ($25)UTG ($22.90)MP ($29.50)Hero (CO) ($60.65)Button ($25)Actually paying attention tonight. Thought this was an interesting hand because it has so many similarities to the previous hand I posted. Similar betting preflop with basically exact same board texture with over card and flush draw. Unfortunately, villian is new to the table and this hand is within the first few orbits.He has min raised a few times and played kinda passively post flop, in the few pots I've seen.Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , Q UTG bets $0.50, MP raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, UTG calls $5.50, 1 foldFlop: ($14.35) 8 , K , 6 (2 players)UTG checks, Hero checksTurn: ($14.35) 3 (2 players)UTG bets $6, Hero raises to $17.50, UTG calls $10.90 (All-In)Line alright?

[JaoTi 0]

what value from worse hands do you get by raising?

[rrumsey 0]

UGH! we block one of the 3 flush draws that would maybe be pushing, it is more likely he has a real hand. The only way we are favorites here is if he A.) somehow has a pair and the nut flush draw (we would be 70% favorites then) but that seems so unlikely looking at the board or B.) has AJ,A10 of hearts and is going crazy with a semibluff. *** i noticed my range was slightly off and fixed it*** Here is hyper loose:Board: Kh 6h 8s 3dDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 83.617% 83.62% 00.00% 2649 0.00 { AA, KcKd, KcKs, KdKs, 8c8d, 8c8h, 8d8h, 6c6d, 6c6s, 6d6s, 3c3h, 3c3s, 3h3s, AcKc, AdKd, AsKs, AcQc, AdQd, AsQs, AhJh, AhTh, Ah9h, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, KcQc, KdQd, KsQs, KcJc, KdJd, KsJs, KcTc, KdTd, KsTs, JhTh, AcKd, AcKs, AdKc, AdKs, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AsKc, AsKd, KcQs, KdQc, KdQs, KsQc, KcJd, KcJh, KcJs, KdJc, KdJh, KdJs, KsJc, KsJd, KsJh, KcTd, KcTh, KcTs, KdTc, KdTh, KdTs, KsTc, KsTd, KsTh }Hand 1: 16.383% 16.38% 00.00% 519 0.00 { QdQh }Pretty tight: Board: Kh 6h 8s 3dDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 94.062% 94.06% 00.00% 1283 0.00 { AA, KcKd, KcKs, KdKs, AcKc, AdKd, AsKs, AhQh, AhJh, KcQc, KdQd, KsQs, KcJc, KdJd, KsJs, AcKd, AcKs, AdKc, AdKs, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AsKc, AsKd, KcQs, KdQc, KdQs, KsQc }Hand 1: 05.938% 05.94% 00.00% 81 0.00 { QdQh }Punch line we are pwned unless we induce bluffs this is a negative ev to stick it in. If we were deeper and could bet the turn then fold to a psb or overshove then i don;t mind this, but we just can't lead in on this turn, check call and see the river you could catch him betting a busted draw a ton of the time here

[trystero 0]

simple question, What are you to do?

[rbakken2504 0]

I really, really dont like your line in this pot...if you're shipping him on the turn, why arent you betting this flop? The turn raise is pretty bad too, you beat like two hands, shut out air, and handcuff yourself to hands that beat you (Which there are a lot of)...A. Bet flopor B. Call turn and re-evaluateC. FoldD. ShoveA>>B>>>>C>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D

[rbakken2504 0]

UGH! we block one of the 3 flush draws that would maybe be pushing, it is more likely he has a real hand. The only way we are favorites here is if he A.) somehow has a pair and the nut flush draw (we would be 70% favorites then) but that seems so unlikely looking at the board or B.) has AJ,A10 of hearts and is going crazy with a semibluff. Board: Kh 6h 8s 3dDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 83.678% 83.68% 00.00% 810 0.00 { KK+, AhJh, AhTh, Ah8h, Ah3h, KhJh, KhTh, AKo }Hand 1: 16.322% 16.32% 00.00% 158 0.00 { QdQh }That range may even be pretty lose, and this gives him a lot of semi bluffs and assumes he can't have a set of 6's, 8's and 3's ( 8's are way left field but kind of somewhat possible, but im not thinking that shows up but 2 out of 100 times imo so im just leaving them out)Lets even say he could have almost any semibluffed ace ( this assumes that villain is an horrible fish and would every let a suited ace go with a flush draw which is somewhat possible at 25 nl): Board: Kh 6h 8s 3dDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 72.811% 72.81% 00.00% 865 0.00 { KK+, AhJh, AhTh, Ah9h, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, KhJh, KhTh, AKo }Hand 1: 27.189% 27.19% 00.00% 323 0.00 { QdQh }His range is kind of big here and unless we can either a.) move him off of everything but AKo, AA we don't create enough fold equityb.) get him to stack off ultra light with a weird naked flush drawthis is a negative ev to stick it in. If we were deeper and could bet the turn then fold to a psb or overshove then i don;t mind this, but we just can't lead in on this turn, check call and see the river you could catch him betting a busted draw a ton of the time here

Why would you leave out sets, but put in A3 and A8 hearts??

[JaoTi 0]

I wouldn't put anywhere near that wide a range in villains 4bet calling OOP distribution

[Royal_Tour 0]

A. Bet flop B. Call turn and re-evaluateC. FoldD. ShoveA>>B>>>>C>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>D

pretty accurate.

[mtdesmoines 2]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($11.85)BB ($25)UTG ($22.90)MP ($29.50)Hero (CO) ($60.65)Button ($25)Actually paying attention tonight. Thought this was an interesting hand because it has so many similarities to the previous hand I posted. Similar betting preflop with basically exact same board texture with over card and flush draw. Unfortunately, villian is new to the table and this hand is within the first few orbits.He has min raised a few times and played kinda passively post flop, in the few pots I've seen.Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , Q UTG bets $0.50, MP raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, 3 folds, UTG calls $5.50, 1 foldFlop: ($14.35) 8 , K , 6 (2 players)UTG checks, Hero checksTurn: ($14.35) 3 (2 players)UTG bets $6, Hero raises to $17.50, UTG calls $10.90 (All-In)Line alright?

This hand got complicated when you checked the flop. This is a verrrrrrry c-betable spot for QQ. It's also complicated because UTG limp-called a PF 3-bet, checked the flop and went berserk on the turn. I'd half expect him to flip a set of 3s. It's the line that makes sense. Other than that, I'd expect to see something completely mangled or a bluff/semi-bluff that he figured he got priced in on when you came over the top. I really don't think your play here is horribad at all ... I think we're all going to more likely say UTG's play was horribad (or at least lucky) when we see what he has. I think the flaw I see is checking the flop.

[Shark527 0]

A. Bet flopor B. Call turn and re-evaluate

Seems most people agree with betting the flop.Pot size is $14.35 and villians stack on the flop is $16.90Won't any 1/2-3/4 pot bet pretty much commit myself to the hand?A turn call puts the pot at $26.35 and villians stack at $10.60Why is checking the flop a bad play?Hearts are the only draw so if I bet the flop, whats calling? A king or a flushing.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Seems most people agree with betting the flop.Pot size is $14.35 and villians stack on the flop is $16.90Won't any 1/2-3/4 pot bet pretty much commit myself to the hand?A turn call puts the pot at $26.35 and villians stack at $10.60Why is checking the flop a bad play?Hearts are the only draw so if I bet the flop, whats calling? A king or a flushing.

well i cant speak for everyone but usually he doesnt hold a K here.He could very well have limped KK hoping to limp/raise But we pretty much have to C-bet this.Unless you have a real read on your villain, But still. Its a tricky spot because if he set mined, well he got lucky. He played the hand poorly, he set mined with horrible odds, and noot closing the actionand if you get it all with QQ vs a set. well for less 90bb's.. that shit happens.I cant find many optimal lines. if you check flop annd he shoves turn on a brick.. you'll probably callWhich is why we posted the idea of betting the flop... or checking behind, then calling his small lead out bet on the turn.Its these TWO options you have to utilize, and you sorta pick your line based on your villain

[mtdesmoines 2]

Why is checking the flop a bad play?

Why is it good?Im not being a smartass, I just want to know what the benefit of checking the flop is if we're coming over the top on a turn bet if we are worried we only get called by a K on the flop?

[rrumsey 0]

Why would you leave out sets, but put in A3 and A8 hearts??

i said it was really wide and we still lose, so even if i add sets we still are pwned (and a pair with an Ace is something we could even beat). I wish i could tell stove to say what was more liklely or not. In reality we are screwed here unless we flat turn and induce a some kind of bet on river when the flushes missed and catch some bluffs

[rrumsey 0]

Why is it good?Im not being a smartass, I just want to know what the benefit of checking the flop is if we're coming over the top on a turn bet if we are worried we only get called by a K on the flop?

we need to either lead out flop or if we do check flop (which i like) we follow by a call when we see a almost 1/2 pot bet and hope to see a blank river and keep it small. By checking flop and pushing villain in on turn we push all the bluffs out mostly and leave only hands we are drawing to 1 of 2 outs

[SCS 0]

If you are betting KT on the flop, which you should, you should be betting QQ here. There is no difference between the two hands.

[rbakken2504 0]

Seems most people agree with betting the flop.Pot size is $14.35 and villians stack on the flop is $16.90Won't any 1/2-3/4 pot bet pretty much commit myself to the hand?A turn call puts the pot at $26.35 and villians stack at $10.60Why is checking the flop a bad play?Hearts are the only draw so if I bet the flop, whats calling? A king or a flushing.

No you wont be committed, because as rumsey has shown with his post, you'll need a huge price to be pot stuck. You're betting the flop to take the pot down right there, but if you get flatted, you can narrow down his range a ton, and than choose your line on the turn. they're quite a few hands that will call you on the flop that you beat, and most hands that beat you will be raising. By checking you make the hand extremely difficult to play. Because by raising the turn you stand to gain no to very little value as the only hands calling your raise are hands that beat you...altho there will be a small percentage of the time where the donk will show up with a pp smaller than yours, but that is a very small %. If you just call this bet, you have options on the river, and you could be gaining value from a lesser hand.

[Shark527 0]

Why is it good?Im not being a smartass, I just want to know what the benefit of checking the flop is if we're coming over the top on a turn bet if we are worried we only get called by a K on the flop?

Your not being a smartass. I'd rather have honest opinions over anything else.The villian had only been on the table for a few orbits but my only initial read from him is that he is a loose, passive aggressive kinda player. His stack is not on an auto reload which also makes me think he's a more inexperienced player.1). His min raise from UTG, with my initial read of him being a passive player, makes me think that he likes his hand, but does not want to put in a real raise with it. He likes his hand enough to want a little extra money in the pot, and more importantly, make it multiway. This read makes me think of a suited connecter or a smaller pair hoping to set up.2). His min raise is a monster wanting someone to repop it. I've also seen this play at times at 25NL. I dismissed 2). because of his flat pre. I think he flatted because he wants MP in the pot as well. All this is what made me put him on a suited connector of some kind or the smaller pair. If my read is correct, I wanted to see a free turn before I charged villian for his flush draw. If he has the smaller pair, then I'm ahead anway. If he does show up with a K, it would be a KQ suited. I checked the flop trying to show weakness, that I have a AQ that missed or a big pair smaller than the K and hoping he would take a stab at it. If he was the inexperienced player I thougt he was, this was most likely happening. I felt checking the flop, given my read of the hand, I would earn more money. I've gotten a smaller pair to bet, or now I'm charging villian the rest of his stack on a one street flush draw.