beyond-bankroll poker any better than pure gambling?

[ForKeeps 0]

Didn't know if this goes in the Stategery section or not but here goes:Have to drive up north this weekend, and thinking about stopping by an Indian casino with a busy pokerroom full of donks and trying to get my gas/food money back. However, I'm trying really hard to stick to bankroll management and am still playing .50c-.50c blind live and online NL games; probably would be up to $1-2 or $2-5 now if I didn't blow it on beer. Anyway, if I write a check from the ol' platinum card and sit down at a $1-2 NL or $3-6 limit game for several hours, am I doing any better than straight gambling because I'm playing outside my bankroll? I KNOW the players at the casino will be on average worse than what I'm accustomed to playing against live at the home games and that I can adjust successfully; and while I'll be playing with credit dough I can certainly manage if I blow $500 or so. Still, this is relatively a one-time shot, and against a herd of donkeys, one's liable to get stepped on.....Should I go for it, assuming I don't suck at poker?

[dball1981 0]

yea you'd be gambling if you slept with an atlantic city hooker and didn't wrap it up.

[ForKeeps 0]

yea you'd be gambling if you slept with an atlantic city hooker and didn't wrap it up.

I hear crickets.

[The Bwaves 0]

You should be fine. Seriously. Are you going to be playing limit or NL at the casino?

[ForKeeps 0]

That's another problem I'm considering. I think the limit games will be even softer than the NL games, but I know I'm also more susceptible to the suck-out on a limit table as well.This math might be seriously flawed, but if I'm at a limit table where likely every hand that is not raised preflop will be played by someone with any two suited cards, am I going to be sucked out on more than 50% of the time if the flop comes with two of a suit? Methinks so. I'd rather play NL and be able to push some people around a little.

[CoopDaddy1 0]

1-888-betsoffI think one of the questions on GA's checklist is...are you gambling w/ money you can't afford to lose? Heck, you'd be actually gambling w/ money that's borrowed on a credit card at 25% interest! Do you really have to ask us if we think you should do it? I think you know the answer.Sincerely,Dad

[The Bwaves 0]

A $100 buy in for 3/6 is fine. You can go a long way with that in limit if you play TAG.If you're playing NL, $100 dollar buy in should be okay, this is what I buy in but at the same time if everyone was buying in $200 at the table I would also buy in $200. The NL games I play are wonderful and am usually able to get a buy in or two in the first couple of hours.Online is so different because you get to see so many more hands/hr in live people are literally there to gamble. They call all the way with their flushes and gut-shots and pay you off on your hands almost everytime.Be happy to take down small pots with no showdown also. If you play a tight game and have good table affinity (table image as being a nice guy) you'll win a lot of money.At the lower limits you can actually get people to tell you what they have, because they don't care it's low limit. Oh, and get ready to call every hand people have against you. It's much easier in limit to read than NL (only because if your wrong you lose much more on any given hand) but other than that the games I play in at those limits are virtually never a tough game.I wish you good luck and post up some results, I'm sure you could even win 3-4 buy ins at NL if you play a good 4-6 hour session. But you have to play A game, which you will because you'll be kinda nervous, nerves keep you sharp though so you'll have fun. Pay attention to every hand people are full of information live. You know when they have a hand, you know when they are drawing. If you're getting called by an older guy, play catious! They usually have strong ass hands. Young guys are always fun because they chase there pocket aces all the way and scream NO WAY BAD BEAT when someone flops a straight on them , Enjoy man.

[bhaas 0]

Well, all I gotta say is, you gotta take your shot sometime. If you win you pay it back to the card. Wanna hear something insane? I just refinanced my house for a 20 grand bankroll and I have no job. Either I make it or I lose it all. No guts, no glory. Bring it.Brad

[ForKeeps 0]

Bwaves for Veteran of the year. Thanks bud.

[ForKeeps 0]

Well, all I gotta say is, you gotta take your shot sometime. If you win you pay it back to the card. Wanna hear something insane? I just refinanced my house for a 20 grand bankroll and I have no job. Either I make it or I lose it all. No guts, no glory. Bring it.Brad

I was thinking of borrowing 50K at one point when I decided I hated my job (who doesn't) but an unsecured loan is lik e a bazillion in interest. Coop Daddy, you taught me responsibility and I have credit cards with nasty locked rates like 4.9%.Man, does Capital One hate me right now or what.

[theredpill99 0]

Poker is always better than pure gambling. And so is Blackjack. This is only if you know how to play those games, though. If you are making 1000 % interest on your money then yeah, it's not a bad deal but if you don't know how to play then that can be a bad idea. How much money are we talking?

[DLizzle 0]

I really hate going with strict, mathematical bankroll management. If I found a weak game out of my bankroll, unless it was the whole thing or something, I'd play for sure. Especially if you are playing really low limits right now, I'd step up for sure. In my opinion, grinding it out at 25-50 wouldn't be worth the time or effort because the money is going to mean very little even if I dominate the game. If I go broke on a 1000 dollar bankroll, oh well, I would hope that in future jobs I could make that easily. Give yourself a shot to make some money and increase your experience playing out of bankroll. However, I wouldn't recommend it if you are a scared money player. Personally, I play a lot more focused in higher limits than I'm used to and really put in a good effort, while avoiding scared money play. In my opinion a very signifigant part of being a successful player is having a disregard for money. Not like you don't care about it, just that if you lose it you won't lose it, you know what I mean. I might have more than answered your question, felt like saying it I guess.

[The Bwaves 0]

That's another problem I'm considering.  I think the limit games will be even softer than the NL games, but I know I'm also more susceptible to the suck-out on a limit table as well.This math might be seriously flawed, but if I'm at a limit table where likely every hand that is not raised preflop will be played by someone with any two suited cards, am I going to be sucked out on more than 50% of the time if the flop comes with two of a suit?  Methinks so. I'd rather play NL and be able to push some people around a little.

Limit isn't a bad game. Everyone think they are suseptable to being sucked out on more, but inevitable you're going to find players like this at NL too, playing Ax suited, small suited connectors and such. Don't get swayed by thinking NL helps you bet off draws, people are going to play the way they like to play so they are going to draw in NL and LIMIT.In fact I would recommend you play limit first, only because it limits your losses. I've had many times where I flopped a flush and someone hit runner runner for a boat and I only lost 30 or 40 dollars compared to NL where I would lose more like 70-100. It's prefrence, limit games have weaker players in my experiences.Example of NL drawers:Playing a local casino playing 1/2 NL, I raise it up to $25 with pocket queens and outrageous overraise for pre-flop and still got called by 3 players, so protection is not always what it seems. A simple 2 bet pre-flop will get a lot of the players out in limit.

[bhaas 0]

Online is so different because you get to see so many more hands/hr in live people are literally there to gamble. They call all the way with their flushes and gut-shots and pay you off on your hands almost everytime.

That is so true. Last time I was at the MGM, there was this kid at the other end of the table with lots of money and kept pushing on draws and lame bluffs. I had $900 of his money in about 45 minutes. Vegas is where it's at. PERIOD. Online is too risky as far as I'm concerned. It's rigged. There, I said it.Brad

[The Bwaves 0]

Bwaves for Veteran of the year.  Thanks bud.

Anytime.

[bhaas 0]

Well, all I gotta say is, you gotta take your shot sometime. If you win you pay it back to the card. Wanna hear something insane? I just refinanced my house for a 20 grand bankroll and I have no job. Either I make it or I lose it all. No guts, no glory. Bring it.Brad

I was thinking of borrowing 50K at one point when I decided I hated my job (who doesn't) but an unsecured loan is lik e a bazillion in interest. Coop Daddy, you taught me responsibility and I have credit cards with nasty locked rates like 4.9%.Man, does Capital One hate me right now or what.

I know what you mean about them low ass credit card rates when using those checks they send you. I try to keep my credit score nice and high. It's in the 700's now and the refi on my house is gonna be 7.5% with no job. Amazing. Only in America. I'm probably gonna rent out my house after I sell off some cars and stay, maybe move to Vegas and see what happens. Since I have absolutely no responsibilities whatsoever, sure makes it an easy decision. I hated my $40K a year job so bad I quit it last year. Was there 10 yrs and hated that last 5 of it. Time for something new. Being free from the working grind is so sweeeeeeeeet.Brad

[ShakeZuma 585]

Hey ForKeeps, what casino are you going to? I thought AC was the closest thing to us

[ForKeeps 0]

Hey Shake, forgot you were from Appo. I grew up in Lynchburg.I'm going to Seneca Alleghany Casino up in southwest NY. Relative up there passed away and this weekend is the funeral. Unfortunately I'm going to have to lie to my folks and say I have to drive home on Sunday to make work on Monday, when really I'll be at the Casino all day, grab a nap in the parking lot and drive home that night.Do you make it up to AC much? I'm right down the interstate and still 6 hours away. I can't imagine how long it takes with all the shyt roads in central VA.

[DLizzle 0]

I actually find live limit games tougher than nl. I've played at two casinos, Fallsview and Casino Niagara, 1/2 nl, 5/5 nl, 3/6 limit and 6/12 limit. The limit games were pretty tight at times, always a couple really bad players though, while the nl games were always good. My advice would be to survey the players at the table. If you see the limit games full of middle age guys and the nl games full of mostly young guys with a wide array of people mixed in, which is what I see, play NL.

[The Bwaves 0]

Online is so different because you get to see so many more hands/hr in live people are literally there to gamble. They call all the way with their flushes and gut-shots and pay you off on your hands almost everytime.

That is so true. Last time I was at the MGM, there was this kid at the other end of the table with lots of money and kept pushing on draws and lame bluffs. I had $900 of his money in about 45 minutes. Vegas is where it's at. PERIOD. Online is too risky as far as I'm concerned. It's rigged. There, I said it.Brad

No check this out, sitting down at limit 3/6, first hour, up $300. So I'm sitting there with almost everyones money, and guess what all the players decide to do for about 2 hours after that, re-load for $40 dollars and keep re-loading. It was probably the greatest 3/6 game I've ever played in.

[ForKeeps 0]

Not sure what is better, people reloading for $40 play 3/6, or Niagra casino having a 6/12 limit game.I laughed heartily at both.

[ShakeZuma 585]

Hey Shake, forgot you were from Appo. I grew up in Lynchburg.I'm going to Seneca Alleghany Casino up in southwest NY.  Relative up there passed away and this weekend is the funeral.  Unfortunately I'm going to have to lie to my folks and say I have to drive home on Sunday to make work on Monday, when really I'll be at the Casino all day, grab a nap in the parking lot and drive home that night.Do you make it up to AC much?  I'm right down the interstate and still 6 hours away.  I can't imagine how long it takes with all the shyt roads in central VA.

hey, cool, Im in Lynchburg right now, I work at the hospital. I have actually never been to AC, although I do really want to go soon, probably this spring if I can get off work at all. And its only about an hour and a half to Richmond/95 from here, and Appo is right on 460 so its not really a problem. it is too much of a trip for me to do just for a night though. I really wish we could have at least B&Ms here in VA

[The Bwaves 0]

I actually find live limit games tougher than nl. I've played at two casinos, Fallsview and Casino Niagara, 1/2 nl, 5/5 nl, 3/6 limit and 6/12 limit. The limit games were pretty tight at times, always a couple really bad players though, while the nl games were always good. My advice would be to survey the players at the table. If you see the limit games full of middle age guys and the nl games full of mostly young guys with a wide array of people mixed in, which is what I see, play NL.

Yes, it really depends on the players at the table, I hate sitting down with a table full of 50-75 year old limit professionals lol. The NL game I play is all young guys with 1-2 older gentlemen who know what they are doing, but aren't exceptional players.Survaying tables is one of the great things about playing live. Almost like datamining online.

[The Bwaves 0]

Not sure what is better, people reloading for $40 play 3/6, or Niagra casino having a 6/12 limit game.I laughed heartily at both.

Both make my pants bulge.I play 3/6 with a kill**Kill - When a player wins a pot twice in a row with action, he recieves the kill button, which will force the player to put in six dollars and will double the game stakes.So I play somewhat 3/6 - 6/12 depending on how many people win two pots in a row. Kill games are variance whores so be careful if your playing a kill game.

[ForKeeps 0]

I heard the poker is booming in AC, particularly at Borgata and Harrah's. It's being sought out by the more quality players up and down the east coast though, so while there are certainly a fair share of donks and gamblers, I think the average player there will be better than in your random Vegas pokerroom. SUPPOSEDLY, there has been some wheeling and dealing at the capitol, and SUPPOSEDLY, VA beach will be opened for Casino traffic about 2011. If I'm in Richmond by then it'll be the perfect day drive.