6-6 On A Short Stack Facing 5 All-ins

[cMcMonkey 0]

There's a weekly $50+5 at the local B&M that plays *very* fast. Its capped at 50 people and typically finishes within 2 hrs (3 hrs is long). There's a little room to play early, but a couple brutal blind jumps - 40-80 jumps to 100-200 and even worse 200-400 to 500-1000 usually around the start of the final table with avg stack at 2500 - means you have to make some hands or some moves sooner rather than later.A situation came up last week that I want to get some opinions about. We're at the last 20-40 hand (40-80 level next hand) and I'm sitting on just over 300 in chips. I'm UTG with 6-6 which is the best hand I've seen yet and the table is starting to tighten up enough so an early raise is getting 1-2 and a c-bet usually takes it down. I raise it up to 140, the chip leader to my left calls and then 4 out of the next 5 ppl go all-in with amounts varying between 160 and 4-500. The 5th hemmed and hawed and was a talker, he managed to spark a discussion where it became pretty obvious the 4 all-ins all had 2 high cards and he made it clear he was calling with his mid-connector. Now its back to me, and I'm facing about 160 into well over 1200 pot, prob getting 10:1 or better on the rest of my stack and looking at possibly 4-5x-ing up (and chipleader still to act).My questions are: A) Should I just have pushed/folded with 66 UTG rather than make a standard raise for half my stack?B) Is the call a no-brainer (esp with the blinds about to take 3/4 of my stack the next 2 hands), what if I didn't get the info that all 5 all-ins were on 2 bigs or a connector?

[simo_8ball 0]

Shove preflop.As played, instacall. Must have been a hell of a discussion if that much became clear, but it doesn't much matter anyway.Next time don't play the tourney. There is nothing to be gained from such a crapshoot.

[SlackerInc 0]

Shove preflop.As played, instacall. Must have been a hell of a discussion if that much became clear, but it doesn't much matter anyway.Next time don't play the tourney. There is nothing to be gained from such a crapshoot.

QFT all around. If these guys all have overcards, they're probably taking away each other's outs and giving you a great chance to win even absent pot odds. And I'll add that even if you were pretty sure someone had an overpair, it still wouldn't make sense to fold. As you noted, if you do fold the BB is going to take half your stack the very next hand, and then the SB will take half of what remains the hand after that. And you can't play poker with half the BB! So if you fold here you're essentially going to have to call off all your chips with whatever you randomly get the next hand (or min-raising all in if no one raises the pot). And even if that BB hand were to double you up, you'd only be back to where you started this hand. Even if you only have two outs, it's your only realistic shot at continuing in this thing.

[cMcMonkey 0]

Shove preflop.As played, instacall. Must have been a hell of a discussion if that much became clear, but it doesn't much matter anyway.Next time don't play the tourney. There is nothing to be gained from such a crapshoot.

Thanks for the replies, I figured not shoving was a mistake afterward, but as it turned out I don't think it would change anything. The 7-8 connector hit 2-pr on the flop (giving me a str8 draw), but AJ turn/rivered a better 2-pr to take it down.As for not playing it, I've been torn since I did so well the first 4 times I played it, and over 20 or so have been a coinflip to make the final table and at least get my money back. The casino adds $500 to the prize pool and the final 3 often chop for 800/ea which is more than the usual payout for 2nd (300 3rd, 600 2nd 1500 1st). I've chopped twice, took 3rd and final tabled another 6-7 times so overall I'm ahead, but I was debating whether it was blind luck or some amount of skill. My conclusion was the first several levels is skill, and if you can build a decent stack in that time with all the bad players, then get lucky on 1-2 hands you're at least getting your money back. Plus it usually is pretty much a freeroll b/c A) there's a morning bonus I get before the tourney starts and B) you have to be in a cash game to get in and it usually pays for itself. I dunno tho.

[linkwood 0]

There's a weekly $50+5 at the local B&M that plays *very* fast. Its capped at 50 people and typically finishes within 2 hrs (3 hrs is long). There's a little room to play early, but a couple brutal blind jumps - 40-80 jumps to 100-200 and even worse 200-400 to 500-1000 usually around the start of the final table with avg stack at 2500 - means you have to make some hands or some moves sooner rather than later.

This tourney wasn't in northern California was it? Sounds a lot like the local tourney at the California Grand. ps. call

[DoinSublime 0]

[cMcMonkey 0]

This tourney wasn't in northern California was it? Sounds a lot like the local tourney at the California Grand. ps. call

You guessed it, its the Cal Grand. You've played it I assume? What's your impression?

[linkwood 0]

You guessed it, its the Cal Grand. You've played it I assume? What's your impression?

I played the tournament with my friend and managed to get 3rd. It was pretty much a donk fest with a fast structure, like all tournaments around here. We got to the final table with the blinds 500-1000 and I was a monster chip leader with just over 10k. From there my luck pretty much died, and I went bust before we could make a deal. Oh well. I don't think I'll go play it again for a couple of reasons. First off the super turbo structure just sucks. If you catch cards you'll do well, if not you're done. Smart players obviously have an advantage in that you'll pick your spots better, but I'm not sure that you can overcome the speed of the levels. Secondly, I hated how even though the tournament started at 10:30am I still had to show up at 8:00 on a Sunday morning. I understand why they do it, given the small size of the club, but it still sucks. I heard they are moving to a bigger room at some point. That's my 2 cents. You seen different? Have you tried their cash games?

[cMcMonkey 0]

I played the tournament with my friend and managed to get 3rd. It was pretty much a donk fest with a fast structure, like all tournaments around here. We got to the final table with the blinds 500-1000 and I was a monster chip leader with just over 10k. From there my luck pretty much died, and I went bust before we could make a deal. Oh well. I don't think I'll go play it again for a couple of reasons. First off the super turbo structure just sucks. If you catch cards you'll do well, if not you're done. Smart players obviously have an advantage in that you'll pick your spots better, but I'm not sure that you can overcome the speed of the levels. Secondly, I hated how even though the tournament started at 10:30am I still had to show up at 8:00 on a Sunday morning. I understand why they do it, given the small size of the club, but it still sucks. I heard they are moving to a bigger room at some point. That's my 2 cents. You seen different? Have you tried their cash games?

Yeah, you pretty much summed it up. If you get a good soft first table in the tourney you can build up to 2-3x your starting stack with little risk since there are a lot of weak-tight limit players who play and are unwilling to call without the nuts until they're super short. Barring that you need to get lucky some number of times to hit the final table. I thought being a super big stack at the final table would make it easier from there, but as you proved even with 10k the jump to 500-1000 is too much, pretty much any hand played is all-in pf and then pray.I don't mind having to get there early, since I play the cash games there pretty often anyway (and why not, I live like 2-3miles away). I've mostly played 3-6 which is action packed because of the 2-2-3 blind structure (an extra $2 blind on the button). So you're guaranteed to have at least 3 in every pot, usually more like 6-10. Just recently I played on the only O8 table they have, and found it even softer than the 3-6. Its rare to have 2-3 ppl fold pf, and at least have the table will regularly call down (or raise) with non-nut low only, non-nut flush with no low, will raise with the nut low when its obvious its split and only one person going high, etc etc. I think you could play good starting hand selection then close your eyes the rest of the hand and still make a profit. I'm considering trying the 1-2NL game, I've watched a couple times and the play is no better than 3-6, with the exception of being able to protect your hand or charge more for draws. The swings will prob be bigger, so I want to make sure to have a solid BR before jumping in there tho (but times runnin out b/c I move back East in 5 weeks then its back to Foxwoods, and Mohegan Sun in '09).

[SpiderGuard 0]

Seems to me this tourney is +EV with the added $500 in the pool. Even if it is a total crapshoot and you have an even chance as everyone else in the place, the extra $500 seems to make it +EV. I see no reason not to play if it's fun for you.

[simo_8ball 0]

Seems to me this tourney is +EV with the added $500 in the pool. Even if it is a total crapshoot and you have an even chance as everyone else in the place, the extra $500 seems to make it +EV. I see no reason not to play if it's fun for you.

Yeah, it's +EV. The problem is just that to go from 50 down to 1 in 3 hours means that there is marginal skill involved.There are only going to be about 400 hands in the tournament in total across all tables. You are only going to see about 120 hands yourself if you win. 120 hands to effectively double through 7 times.

[linkwood 0]

Yeah, it's +EV. The problem is just that to go from 50 down to 1 in 3 hours means that there is marginal skill involved.There are only going to be about 400 hands in the tournament in total across all tables. You are only going to see about 120 hands yourself if you win. 120 hands to effectively double through 7 times.

Yeah, the one time I played I can remember, at most 6 hands I played. Only one wasn't all in pre flop and that one should have been all in, but I was trying to coax a donkey into doubling me up, which we did by the river. So pretty much every hand I played was an all in. My tournament lasted about 2 hours also.

[SpiderGuard 0]

Yeah, it's +EV. The problem is just that to go from 50 down to 1 in 3 hours means that there is marginal skill involved.There are only going to be about 400 hands in the tournament in total across all tables. You are only going to see about 120 hands yourself if you win. 120 hands to effectively double through 7 times.

If Blackjack had a 52% edge for the player and wasn't the most boring game on the planet, it would be +EV. There wouldn't be much skill involved, but it would be good to play.I don't know, I guess it depends on the marginal utility of the fun involved in the tournament. If it's fun, it's +EV, I say go for it.

[SlackerInc 0]

If Blackjack had a 52% edge for the player and wasn't the most boring game on the planet, it would be +EV. There wouldn't be much skill involved, but it would be good to play.I don't know, I guess it depends on the marginal utility of the fun involved in the tournament. If it's fun, it's +EV, I say go for it.

Yeah, I played super-turbos like this at Canterbury but instead of money added, there was a house vig. I'd be much more tempted with the extra money in there; but it still can be frustrating when you get shortstacked so fast that you don't get to feel like you are really able to play poker.

[cMcMonkey 0]

Thanks for all the replies, I'd been struggling with whether to play it or not for a while and it puts the tourney in different perspective. If I'm looking for tourney experience or to test my skill its prob not the best choice (which I knew), but it seems to be +EV (both in theory and in my results). Since its a fun diversion from the regular cash games I'll probably play it a few more times to try and get lucky and wait until I get back East to play some real tournaments.The $500 overlay is really what makes it. The same way the $70,000+ bad beat jackpot makes the cash games worth it even if someone were to only break-even long term. A typical table share of the jackpot is $5000, with usually $35-40k to the hand loser. I'll certainly miss the chance of hitting the jackpot when I move.