Obama's Religion

[WrongWay 0]

The senior bush was more liberal than alot of today's Democrats. His congressional voting record is rather shocking. He was not a Reaganite fiscal conservative, he was much more of a Keynesian.

Exactly. Regan raised spending and cut taxes, letting the chips fall where they may. Deficits went from $70 billion to over $200 billion a year from '80 to '88. They topped above $300 billion before Bush could get it turned around....and that is with Social Security "trust fund" deposits subtracting from the reported deficits.We HAD to undo the damage Regan had done. H.W. Bush worked with congress to do what needed to be done, raise taxes and cut spending. Unfortunatly, the initial reaction to better long-range fiscal policy was a slight dip in the economy that cost him re-electon. However, the long-term results of the better fiscal policy was increadibly economic boom that lasted from 92-2001.Bush Jr., in an attempt to soften the dip from the tech-bubble burst has undone what good his dad did. He raised spending and lowered taxes. The excess capital flowing into the market didn't put us back on a safe course. It pumped capital into the market which sparked the houseing boom... Which is now crumbling down.

As opposed to what other major national politician? This is something that's always puzzled me, the Clinton hate, because people say you can't trust him or that he's a liar. Well no sht, he's a liar, he's a freaking politician.

True. Any politician that wants to win national office has to lie. What I didn't like about Clinton was that his lies went well beyond policy. He was involved in shady land deals. Took bribes in the form of fradulent cattle futures trades(through his wife). Used his office as govener to get his wife a partnership in a major law firm that had dealing with the AR government. Used the AR state police to help get him BJs. Attacked the character of the acusers when it came out. Being caught red-tounged lieing under oath was just par for the course for this flea covered politician who spent his life laying down with dogs.

My dad feels the same way, has so much Clinton hate, I just don't really get it. I said to him one time, " don't think Clinton lies any more or any less than GW" and he looked at me like I was crazy.

Bush lies about policy. The insurgency is in its last death throws. Iraq tried to buy nuke materials in Sudan. We've cut the deficit in half 3 years ahead of schedule.....Clintons were/are just plain dirty.

[WrongWay 0]

See, and I happen to think that eliminating the minimum wage is the way to go. Why? Because then the highest bidder wins the worker, and employers have an actual incentive to put resources into the very bottom rung person. As it is, they don't- the system allows for the idea that these workers are disposeable, and not worth time, when in fact many of these positions are absolutely critical to a company delivering a product.

In areas of the country where low level workers are scarce, the typical entry level wage is already well above minimum wage for a lot of entry level positions. They are already having to bid for the best workers... and they still view them as expendable. Spend 3 hours training them, then work them 'til they quit. Eliminating the minimum wage probably wouldn't really do much except in the poorest areas of the country.

Healthcare? Eliminate insurance. Why? It would reinstate a free market. Maybe competition from pharmacies in Mexico, dentists in Mexico, would be a good thing. We are not even top 10 in the world last time I checked when it comes to the Healthcare industry, yet we sure do pay like we are. Why is that?

In my opinion, a lot of the cost has to do with malpractice insurance. Govt says dr's pay a sum of somethign like $110 billion a year in malpractice insurance. So, of the $6K a year my company is paying to insure a family of 4, $1500 of it is going to malpractice insurance. And still, the insurance companies are losing money because the number of cases being filed is skyrocketing as lawyers see doctors as easy targets.Drug prices are also a huge reason. Unfortunatly, if we limit he profits of the drug companies, we drastically cut back the amount of money they'll spend creating new drugs. As for not having the best care inthe world... that is "on average". People like me with awesome insurance do have the best care in the world. However, you have to factor in the huge chunk of people in this country that don't have insurance, and therefore have some of the worst care in the industrialized world. The best and the worst average out to be just okay. Now convince the rich they should have worse care to bring the uninsured people up to acceptable. My fiancee works at a hospital that does not have a teauma center. If you get in a car crash across the street from the hospital, they won't take you. You have to get transported about 15 miles to the nearest trauma center. Repeatedly the city has tried to get them to open a trauma center. No freakin way they are going to do it. Why? Because you have to treat everyone, even if they don't have insurance. And the insurance companies make it very tough to roll the costs into the patients that do have insurance. And the government medicaide plans don't come close to covering the costs. Trauma centers are HUGE losses. Every hospital that has one is trying to close it. Any hospital that doesn't won't add one. We all suffer.The worst thing about ending insurance is that it would TOTALLY de-incentivise saving money. You can spent a lifetime saving a million dollars, only to have it wiped out in a year should you get cancer, or some other major disease. Why bother saving? Spend every dollar you can get, then when you get sick, the govt will pay because we aren't going to just let you die.This is exactly the type of "unintentional consequences" that come from thinking purely philosophically about an issue. You have to focus on what will work, not what is "right" or "wrong".

Ending Social Security would be fine with me. I would rather- and would, by the way- invest the money myself anyway. I also believe in a flat tax, where we only tax certain goods and services. The people who spend the most, get taxed the most. Howvever, they can afford it. If they couldn't, they wouldn't spend. Criminals? Still buy ****. There would be no skirting taxes. Of course, that would create a larger black market than now, and since there woudl no longer be any crazy tax codes to enforce, guess what the IRS new job is? Stop whatver black markets pop up.

He lls yeah.... from a purely ME point of view I'd LOVE to end Social Security. As a 40 year old, I'll be paying in 3.5 times as much as my grandparent, as percent of income. Counting the employeer match, they paid 1.5% for a decade. 3% for a decade. 6%. 9% 11%. I've been paying 17.5% Social Security and Medicare for 20 years. Assuming it doesn't go up, the system "at best" will only be able to pay me half what my parents got.And my grandparents got a pention on top of that. I get no pension. I hve to save for myself through IRA and 401(k), while also paying for their pensions and for their Social Security.People my age are truely getting screwed.BUT, if we end Social Security, are you going to sit back and watch old people starve in the streets? Not only would my parents be moving in with me, but my grandparents also.

So, in retrospect, you are for big government and I am the opposite. I guess that would be a simple way of putting it.

I'm in favor of right-sized government. We're spending way too much on defence building ships and planes we don't need to keep the huge defense contractors in business while we send our soldiers into combat without the best equipment. Why, no huge profits in body armor.We spend way too much turning corn into ethanol to keep the price of corn up to keep profits rolling for the big ag companies. We spend WAY too much fighting the war on drugs, which causes more crime. We spend too much maintiang the illusion of safety. Welfare is horrid. Foodstamps needs a mojor overhaul. We need to privatize Medicare. I'd lke to see more competition in education. I see no reason to return to the moon or try to send men to mars. I don't want govt to take over the meidcal system. I want them to limit malpractice claims and slice the lawyers out of the pie. I want them to establish non-profit insurance funds which everyone in the country will belong to that use a board of doctors to ration care to everyone. If you want care above and beyond the bare minimum, then you pay out of pocket (like your getting rid of insurance, but only for the non-necessities.)I'm not in favor of big government. I'm in favor of a government that works, that keeps the economy stable, that creates a safety net that doesn't turn into a hammock, that spends money for the good of the people rather than the companies that made huge contributions to the election fund, that focuses on the long term instead of the next election.I know, it is an impossible dream.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Bush lies about policy. The insurgency is in its last death throws. Iraq tried to buy nuke materials in Sudan. We've cut the deficit in half 3 years ahead of schedule.....Clintons were/are just plain dirty.

I guess I have more issue about policy lies that get us involved in unwinnable wars than I do about any other kind.

[WrongWay 0]

I guess I have more issue about policy lies that get us involved in unwinnable wars than I do about any other kind.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't vote for Bush, either time. I seriously dislike him as a president. Clinton I disliked less than Bush as a president, I just hate(d) them both as people. Bush represents the worst of American presidents. The Clintons represent the worst of Americans.

[WrongWay 0]

fyi...our trade deficit while sucky isnt all that bad...we overcome it in otherways (dont remember the details from my International trade class about year and half ago but the jist is that while it looks bad and we do need to improve it...it isnt going to cause us to be doomed anytime soon.

Yeah, trade deficit isn't bad.... 1.5 years ago China stopped locking its currency to ours.http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?...;amt=1&t=5yAnd the Euro?http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDEUR=X&t=5yWe buy everything overseas, and as the value of the dollar drops, it causes cost push inflation. This is why we have had inflation even in bad economic years lately.The trade difict has been kept in check becuase China has ben loaning us our money back. If they ever decide to stop doing that, then the exchange rate will take a HUGE hit... creating massive inflation here. Only way to stop that from happening is to up interest rates amkiing people want to lend us more money, which also harms the economy and will cause massive trade dificits since so much of our federal budget is interest on our $8.8 trillion national debt. 1% change in interest rate is $90 million more interest on the debt.... all of it deficit spending.That extra borrowing puts added preasure on the bond market causing a viscious cycle of higher interest causing higher deficits, causing more borrowing, casuing higher interest rates, causing higer deficits.... See the latte 70s, early 1980s for an example. Inflation caused the interest rates to climb, caused higher interest on the debt, caused rising deficits, caused higher interest, caused higher deficits... It wasn't until the Bush Sr. tax increase/spending cut deal with congress that we slashed the deficit, cutting borrowing, allowing interest rates to fall, reducing interest ratees, causing the interest rates to fall...

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

And no love for the Bill and Ted's quote/San dimas refrence? phhhttt

[timwakefield 68]

And no love for the Bill and Ted's quote/San dimas refrence? phhhttt

I loved it, I just couldn't come up with a witty response

[pokerfriendly 0]

See, and I happen to think that eliminating the minimum wage is the way to go. Why? Because then the highest bidder wins the worker, and employers have an actual incentive to put resources into the very bottom rung person. As it is, they don't- the system allows for the idea that these workers are disposeable, and not worth time, when in fact many of these positions are absolutely critical to a company delivering a product. Healthcare? Eliminate insurance. Why? It would reinstate a free market. Maybe competition from pharmacies in Mexico, dentists in Mexico, would be a good thing. We are not even top 10 in the world last time I checked when it comes to the Healthcare industry, yet we sure do pay like we are. Why is that? Ending Social Security would be fine with me. I would rather- and would, by the way- invest the money myself anyway. I also believe in a flat tax, where we only tax certain goods and services. The people who spend the most, get taxed the most. Howvever, they can afford it. If they couldn't, they wouldn't spend. Criminals? Still buy ****. There would be no skirting taxes. Of course, that would create a larger black market than now, and since there woudl no longer be any crazy tax codes to enforce, guess what the IRS new job is? Stop whatver black markets pop up. So, in retrospect, you are for big government and I am the opposite. I guess that would be a simple way of putting it.

well said