New Challenge (old Challenge)

[Suited_Up 2]

**** you all I like August

Good, it's about time.

[ChicagoMike22 0]

I agree about the bad beats, but I wanted to share a glimpse into my world. I think I accomplished that and now I am done.

[Suited_Up 2]

It's all good, just venting.On an other subject. We're on page 888. Which is like 8/8/08, which is the grand opening for the new Horseshoe in Hammond. Which is Friday... supposedly they're gonna be doing some sweet promotions, and rumors have it, maybe $1000 pot splashes. Weeeeee!

[rdtedm 0]

This is not the fucking bad beat thread!I posted one a minute ago, and I only posted it because I mentioned that I was playing that tournament a few posts earlier. Other than that, I dare you to find one in the past month at least.Know what? I don't fucking care! Neither does anybody else.Yes I'm drunk, but I'm also right, and I'm sure some people agree. It's getting a little ridiculous.Please keep it to a minimum. Thanks.

Who died and made you king?

[RDog 0]

Kurt.....yes, everyone realizes this isn't a bad beat forum. No matter who it is, when you are running bad, you post your share. And right now everyone is running like shit. So that is basically what is happening. There are definitely too many and I'm to blame as much as anyone, it's a good place to vent. But seriously dude, chill the **** out. You either should stop drinking or stop blaming your behavior on drinking, not sure which.

[ChicagoMike22 0]

Kurt.....yes, everyone realizes this isn't a bad beat forum. No matter who it is, when you are running bad, you post your share. And right now everyone is running like shit. So that is basically what is happening. There are definitely too many and I'm to blame as much as anyone, it's a good place to vent. But seriously dude, chill the **** out. You either should stop drinking or stop blaming your behavior on drinking, not sure which.

I want to clarify...... Lots of people are currently running bad, I'm just playing what I call poker.

[Suited_Up 2]

Kurt.....yes, everyone realizes this isn't a bad beat forum. No matter who it is, when you are running bad, you post your share. And right now everyone is running like shit. So that is basically what is happening. There are definitely too many and I'm to blame as much as anyone, it's a good place to vent. But seriously dude, chill the **** out. You either should stop drinking or stop blaming your behavior on drinking, not sure which.

Yeah, but I'm definitely not the first person to say something like this. I don't know, maybe you have even said something similar, I actually forget who all have said it. But I know that you've been pretty vocal about the content in here, so yeah. It has nothing to do with drinking, but it's just getting depressing. I run bad too, but I just make a post and bitch, I don't post every hand that happened to me.

[Veener Schnitz 0]

hostility in here. as poker players we must learn to accept the good with the bad and venting about the bad comes with the territory.

[Citizen Erased 0]

Yeah, but I'm definitely not the first person to say something like this. I don't know, maybe you have even said something similar, I actually forget who all have said it. But I know that you've been pretty vocal about the content in here, so yeah. It has nothing to do with drinking, but it's just getting depressing. I run bad too, but I just make a post and bitch, I don't post every hand that happened to me.

Yes, but when you lose thousands of dollars - that you're living on, I'll just add - to events out of your control, it's always nice to have support to fall back on, and that's what is provided in this thread.

[Suited_Up 2]

Yes, but when you lose thousands of dollars - that you're living on, I'll just add - to events out of your control, it's always nice to have support to fall back on, and that's what is provided in this thread.

You can get that without posting a bunch of hand histories. Take one post and put up some crazy graph or something. It gets the same point across.

[ChicagoMike22 0]

Ok, I'm not sure about my turn decision here. The villain in this hand is an aggressive lag fully capable of bluff raising turns on scary boards. However, I get myself into a leveling problem in this spot, i.e. He can't expect me to fold a jack, so he can't bluff raise OR, therefore its a good place to bluff raise, etc.Did I make the right decision against this type of player and just run into the top of his range?Is it always best to stay on the first level at 200NL? Is there a good way to break this down and make the best decision?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG ($273.30)Hero ($235.75)CO ($156.40)Button ($191)SB ($74.75)BB ($288.80)Preflop: Hero is MP with J , A . UTG raises to $8, Hero calls $8, CO calls $8, Button calls $8, 2 folds.Flop: ($35) 9 , J , 2 (4 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $24, CO folds, Button calls $24, UTG folds.Turn: ($83) J (2 players)Hero bets $60, Button raises to $159, Hero calls $99.River: ($401) T (2 players)Final Pot: $401Results in white below: Hero has Js Ad (three of a kind, jacks). Button has 2d 2s (full house, twos full of jacks). Outcome: Button wins $401.

[Suited_Up 2]

Ok, I'm not sure about my turn decision here. The villain in this hand is an aggressive lag fully capable of bluff raising turns on scary boards. However, I get myself into a leveling problem in this spot, i.e. He can't expect me to fold a jack, so he can't bluff raise OR, therefore its a good place to bluff raise, etc.Did I make the right decision against this type of player and just run into the top of his range?Is it always best to stay on the first level at 200NL? Is there a good way to break this down and make the best decision?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG ($273.30)Hero ($235.75)CO ($156.40)Button ($191)SB ($74.75)BB ($288.80)Preflop: Hero is MP with J , A . UTG raises to $8, Hero calls $8, CO calls $8, Button calls $8, 2 folds.Flop: ($35) 9 , J , 2 (4 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $24, CO folds, Button calls $24, UTG folds.Turn: ($83) J (2 players)Hero bets $60, Button raises to $159, Hero calls $99.River: ($401) T (2 players)Final Pot: $401Results in white below: Hero has Js Ad (three of a kind, jacks). Button has 2d 2s (full house, twos full of jacks). Outcome: Button wins $401.

I don't know whether I actually fold or not, but I feel like waiting for the turn puts him on better than a J. Feels like a flush, but backing into a boat is basically the same thing. Feels like you're beat but it's a tough fold regardless. I don't know the best play honestly.

[cwik 0]

So Mark and Rdog don't feel so alone, last 35k hands:[x] Winning player

[troyomac 0]

You can get that without posting a bunch of hand histories. Take one post and put up some crazy graph or something. It gets the same point across.

I could be wrong, I'm not going back to check, but I think he only posted 2 hands? WTFAnd you posted 1 yourself, lol. FWIW not everyone is running bad this month, I'm running quite well.

[Suited_Up 2]

I could be wrong, I'm not going back to check, but I think he only posted 2 hands? WTFAnd you posted 1 yourself, lol. FWIW not everyone is running bad this month, I'm running quite well.

LOL, I've hardly seen you post anything, you get a pass

[troyomac 0]

LOL, I've hardly seen you post anything, you get a pass

I wasn't looking for a pass, I was just wondering where all your roid rage was coming from, lol.

[RDog 0]

Ok, I'm not sure about my turn decision here. The villain in this hand is an aggressive lag fully capable of bluff raising turns on scary boards. However, I get myself into a leveling problem in this spot, i.e. He can't expect me to fold a jack, so he can't bluff raise OR, therefore its a good place to bluff raise, etc.Did I make the right decision against this type of player and just run into the top of his range?Is it always best to stay on the first level at 200NL? Is there a good way to break this down and make the best decision?PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG ($273.30)Hero ($235.75)CO ($156.40)Button ($191)SB ($74.75)BB ($288.80)Preflop: Hero is MP with J , A . UTG raises to $8, Hero calls $8, CO calls $8, Button calls $8, 2 folds.Flop: ($35) 9 , J , 2 (4 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $24, CO folds, Button calls $24, UTG folds.Turn: ($83) J (2 players)Hero bets $60, Button raises to $159, Hero calls $99.River: ($401) T (2 players)Final Pot: $401Results in white below: Hero has Js Ad (three of a kind, jacks). Button has 2d 2s (full house, twos full of jacks). Outcome: Button wins $401.

He is never doing that as a bluff.........which basically means you are toast. It's a shitty spot because you want to protect your hand on the turn against naked flush draws but most of the time when you get any action you are in trouble. Think its probably a bet/fold.Edit: Also, just to answer some of your questions. From everything I have seen you post, etc., I really think you might be over-thinking spots and giving people too much credit for being 5th level thinkers. There are probably 2 200 NL players that I really level myself against because I know they think the game well (ZekGB is one) so I try to avoid having them sit with position on me much cause I know its going to be a shitty situation for me.

[troyomac 0]

He is never doing that as a bluff.........which basically means you are toast. It's a shitty spot because you want to protect your hand on the turn against naked flush draws but most of the time when you get any action you are in trouble. Think its probably a bet/fold.

You can't bet/fold, you've got too many boat outs, and opponent has a worse J often enough that you're actually ahead here.

[ChicagoMike22 0]

He is never doing that as a bluff.........which basically means you are toast. It's a shitty spot because you want to protect your hand on the turn against naked flush draws but most of the time when you get any action you are in trouble. Think its probably a bet/fold.

Is it really best to bet then? Is protection against the flush draw a good enough reason to bet?

[ChicagoMike22 0]

You can't bet/fold, you've got too many boat outs, and opponent has a worse J often enough that you're actually ahead here.

I have ten maximum boat outs and getting 3-1 on a call. I need to make up 13% equity in him having worse Jack with a 3 out redraw.How often does he have to have a worse jack? How do you do that math?

[KHSPoker21 0]

Mark, FWIW, and I know you this, just about every winning player has huge breakeven stretches at some point. I have had a couple close to 50k myself.

50k stretches make me sigh, but it's good to know I'm not the only one.I would just like to point out that bad beat posts are part of this thread. Have been and always will be and we all post them and support each other, anyone that takes issue with that should either relax or find other threads to post in.

[RDog 0]

You can't bet/fold, you've got too many boat outs, and opponent has a worse J often enough that you're actually ahead here.

I don't think a worse J is shoving that turn and being that we are getting it in with one card to come, I don't think we are going to have enough equity since I think this is a boat already even more often than it is the flush.

[cwik 0]

He is never doing that as a bluff.........which basically means you are toast. It's a shitty spot because you want to protect your hand on the turn against naked flush draws but most of the time when you get any action you are in trouble. Think its probably a bet/fold.

WAT!?Board: 9h Jh 2h JdDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.610% 39.97% 07.64% 510 97.50 { AdJs }Hand 1: 52.390% 44.75% 07.64% 571 97.50 { 99, 22, AhQh, AJs, AhTh, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, KJs, QJs, JTs, AJo, KJo, QJo, JTo }And that is a really tight range, that doesn't include any straight up draws.No way this is bet/fold. You also need to be to protect/value from flush draws. Bet/Call, I don't see any other line.

[ChicagoMike22 0]

I don't think a worse J is shoving that turn and being that we are getting it in with one card to come, I don't think we are going to have enough equity since I think this is a boat already even more often than it is the flush.

I disagree, a fully expect a set to raise on a single suit flop. Even more so multi-way flops

[ChicagoMike22 0]

WAT!?Board: 9h Jh 2h JdDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 47.610% 39.97% 07.64% 510 97.50 { AdJs }Hand 1: 52.390% 44.75% 07.64% 571 97.50 { 99, 22, AhQh, AJs, AhTh, Ah8h, Ah7h, Ah6h, Ah5h, Ah4h, Ah3h, KJs, QJs, JTs, AJo, KJo, QJo, JTo }And that is a really tight range, that doesn't include any straight up draws.No way this is bet/fold. You also need to be to protect/value from flush draws. Bet/Call, I don't see any other line.

edit: never mind, I'm not bright