Interesting Hu Hand

[Alpha1494 0]

Set up. My buddy Josh and I decided to play a little HU tournament before going out to the bars one night. We start with 5000 in chips with 25-50 blinds to start and bump them up about every 15 minutes (we really like to play deepstacked in these things). This hand occurred with blinds at 100-200 and we both are still at 5000. Josh is a very good player, he has established himself well and has been playing online for a couple years now as his ONLY source of income.I limp the button with Qh2d. Josh checks his option.Flop comes Jh10d9h.Not a terrible flop for my hand. Josh is pretty aggressive, but I like my spot because I have position and room to play this hand.Josh leads out for 300. I know Josh will bet with almost any 2 cards so I opt to flat call and see if I can get any more information by looking at a turn card. I put a lot of thought into a raise, but Josh knows I'm aggressive as well, so I don't want to put a lot of chips in because I very well may get put to the test (he would likely reraise me if he puts me on a draw)and never get the opportunity to actually see another card with my straight draw.Turn comes 2h.I like this card, but am still a little concerned. I've not picked up a pair and another draw (flush).Josh leads out for 900. Now I've got a difficult decision to deal with. It looks like Josh has a real hand here (probably top pair). His bet has told me he knows I have a straight draw. But I've now got what I think is 18 outs (9 hearts, 3 not heart K's, 3 not heart 8's, and 2 deuces). K's and 8's may chop, and I'm not counting Q's as an out because it makes the board way too dangerous (Josh could easily have flopped a pair with a K or 8). Its hard to say I have exactly 18 outs, but it should be in this range. I thought about raising to represent the flush, but Josh knows I'd probably raise the flop if I had flopped a heart draw in a pot that got limped preflop. Josh may have a heart draw, but its not likely to be A high because he would have raised preflop. He could have the Kh, but I really have no way of figuring this out. There isn't a real way for me to gain information that specific in this hand. It is possible he has a has made a flush, but Josh is tricky. He would likely check if he had made the A or K high flush because he knows its unlikely that his hand is counteirfeit. I also thought he would make a slighly smaller bet if he did indeed make a smaller flush because his hand very much merits betting for value. I put a lot of thought in on this street. I thought raising would be the worst decision here. Even with all these outs, some of them may not be good, and I don't want to pot commit myself here. Calling and folding are both very reasonable options here. I considered folding here because I could find a much more definative spot to commit my chips. I'll still have 4500 if I fold here, and Josh will have a very small lead. I felt that my hand had enough ways to improve to justify calling, and if it doesn't, I can get away if I don't improve my hand and still have 3600. Josh may just have a dry Q or 8, so it may go check check on the river and my deuce may be good (but based on my assessment, this isn't likely, but there is still a small chance). Putting all this thought in, I opted to call.River comes 2sThis was clearly a great card for my hand. I've now made runner runner trips. Josh now leads out for 1600. What do I do now?Everyone, please give me some of your thoughts on this. I will post results after I see some feedback. For everyone's information, I've posted this scenario just to see what some other people do in this situation. I think its an interesting hand and could probably generate some good discussion. Have fun disecting this one fellas.Alpha

[mtdesmoines 3]

Call.

[UncleHoot 0]

Call.

Really? Josh was probably putting us (we're all buddies now!) on some sort of a draw, possibly with a smaller matching pair (perhaps something like QJ, Q9, 89, etc.) Josh probably has 2 pair, but I think it's unlikely that he has more than that (3 pair notwithstanding ). Unless Josh is a pro, he probably thinks he has you beat with his top pair, good kicker. I would be willing to shove it all in. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'd do it. Worst case, he may have the flush, and then he might think he's staring at a full house, but only if he's a really good player. It's also possible that he's got a full-house now, but if so, I'd still be willing to risk it. I would think that he was unable to improve his hand, but probably still thinks he has you beat.To me, it seems like he was trying to push you off the pot, to prevent you from hitting your draw. Now he figures you've got middle-pair, at best, but doesn't want you to bluff (if he checks).I'm not saying that I'm right, but that's what I would do...

[mtdesmoines 3]

Really? Josh was probably putting us (we're all buddies now!) on some sort of a draw, possibly with a smaller matching pair (perhaps something like QJ, Q9, 89, etc.) Josh probably has 2 pair, but I think it's unlikely that he has more than that (3 pair notwithstanding ). Unless Josh is a pro, he probably thinks he has you beat with his top pair, good kicker. I would be willing to shove it all in. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I'd do it. Worst case, he may have the flush, and then he might think he's staring at a full house, but only if he's a really good player. It's also possible that he's got a full-house now, but if so, I'd still be willing to risk it. I would think that he was unable to improve his hand, but probably still thinks he has you beat.To me, it seems like he was trying to push you off the pot, to prevent you from hitting your draw. Now he figures you've got middle-pair, at best, but doesn't want you to bluff (if he checks).I'm not saying that I'm right, but that's what I would do...

If it's just play money, then push. But there's 10000 chips in play and if we can only pay 1600 to see a better hand, or sneak out of this hand winning with trip deuces ... yeah. Call. It's heads up. We can muscle him around in better spots.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

If it's just play money, then push. But there's 10000 chips in play and if we can only pay 1600 to see a better hand, or sneak out of this hand winning with trip deuces ... yeah. Call. It's heads up. We can muscle him around in better spots.

I like this. My first impulse was "push" - if we trust our read then Josh is likely thinking his Top Pair is good. But this analysis is more prudent. Depends on if you come from the "follow your read" school - or the "fight the prudent fight" school.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I like this. My first impulse was "push" - if we trust our read then Josh is likely thinking his Top Pair is good. But this analysis is more prudent. Depends on if you come from the "follow your read" school - or the "fight the prudent fight" school.

Garbage hands can make you steady money if you dodge bullets. But I just don't want to lose all my chips because I chose to invest everything in a Q2 os. Last night I played an almost exactly duplicate hand. A2o ... flop brings the deuce. I bet. Call. Turn brings another. I bet. Call. River is a brick. I check. Villian bets about 15% of the pot. I cannot put the villain on a hand, so I CALL. Villain flopped a set of jacks and filled up on the turn. I don't think I was pushing him off the hand with any raise. Be careful with your trip deuces, folks.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Garbage hands can make you steady money if you dodge bullets. But I just don't want to lose all my chips because I chose to invest everything in a Q2 os. Last night I played an almost exactly duplicate hand. A2o ... flop brings the deuce. I bet. Call. Turn brings another. I bet. Call. River is a brick. I check. Villian bets about 15% of the pot. I cannot put the villain on a hand, so I CALL. Villain flopped a set of jacks and filled up on the turn. I don't think I was pushing him off the hand with any raise. Be careful with your trip deuces, folks.

Too funny. A week or so ago I played a very similar hand to the one you describe. I am holding A2s... flop is 235... I call a small bet from MP. Turn is another 2. MP bets & I raise (while I was deciding my play, a guy to my left tossed his chips into the pot to call the MP bet - when I raised the late position player shot me a look to kill!). River comes with an 8. MP Checks and I put in a pot sized bet. I hear the MP say to the guy next to him: "There were two flush draws and a straight draw - the red 8 didn't help him... I call"I guess the difference in my hand was disguizing my set as a draw, having a good read on the potential Villan, and the lack of a true over card. If I lose set to over set (or boat which is essentially the same thing) I am ok with that outcome.

[Alpha1494 0]

Ok, se here's how my analysis of the river card went. When I get 1600 bet into me, it really really bothered me. I play with Josh a lot, and I know he's not messing around at this point. I know Josh would be check calling with most of the ranges of hands that I had put him on on the turn. So this bet bothered me incredibly bad. It really confused me. I actually thought for well over 2 minutes to make my decision. I really wanted to fold. I told him I really wanted to fold. When he made the bet, I knew it was strength. I knew that he was 1) not bluffing 2) wasn't betting top pair. At this point, I thought he had flopped the *** end of the straight. When I started looking back, this hand made a lot of sense to me. On a J-10-9 board with 2 hearts, he's smart enough to not give a free turn card when he's holding 7-8. All his action to this point made that a very real possibility. I thought forever, and decided that there was too much money in the pot so I called. I told him I was upset that I was calling because I thought it was a very vfery poor decision. To my dismay he said that I should have gone with my read and folded because he did indeed have me beat, but the most unfortunate part was that his hand was absolutely none of the hands that I had put him on.Josh's Hand:Kh2cWe laughed about it for awhile because the hand was just too funny to be honest. I ended up making a comeback and winning, so he owed me a few drinks when we got to the bars.Overall, I was happy about my read (even though I didn't end up going with it). This is the type of hand when you play online you lose a lot of chips. I ended up losing a lot, but there was that extra 'something' that you get when you read someone playing live that told me to get away. Unfortunately I'm just not good enough to make that lay down when I'm playing for bar tabs. I wonder what I would have done if we were playing for straight cash instead of bar tabs. Oh well.Alpha

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Garbage hands can make you steady money if you dodge bullets. But I just don't want to lose all my chips because I chose to invest everything in a Q2 os. Last night I played an almost exactly duplicate hand. A2o ... flop brings the deuce. I bet. Call. Turn brings another. I bet. Call. River is a brick. I check. Villian bets about 15% of the pot. I cannot put the villain on a hand, so I CALL. Villain flopped a set of jacks and filled up on the turn. I don't think I was pushing him off the hand with any raise. Be careful with your trip deuces, folks.

I think Daniel would approve of your approach...Fri Dec 15 14:41:00 PST 2006Daniel Negreanu Takes a Pot From Ted ForrestOn a flop of 10/2/2, Ted Forrest bets $750 and Daniel Negreanu makes the call. The turn brings the 4 and Forrest fires $1,800. Negreanu calls again and the river comes the 8. Forrest bets $2,500 and Negreanu just calls. Forrest mucks his cards as Negreanu turns over 5/2 for trip deuces.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

I'd probably take the lead away on the flop and raise it up. He's aggressive, and he knows you are, but do you really see him coming over the top if you reraise in position? He'd have to play for all his chips, here, and he has to have a hand to do so. If not, you're not even a huge dog vs most hands.Wang

[prodddiii 0]

The way you describe josh, i dont see a problem with pushing here. I think the play has positive EV.