five 0.5-1.00 limit hands

[crumpentunt 0]

Hey, anytime I've just had a hand where I feel it was strange or something went wrong, or I wasn't too sure about a certain call/raise/fold I made, I immediately email the HH to my email and then try to go over it. I have five problem hands for you experts out there, nothing really exciting, but I just have some questions. I haven't read the Ed Miller or Sklansky and Malmouth books in low limit holdem yet (waiting till after finals), so some of my reasoning is most likely off.Also, Sadly to say, I don't have PT or GT+ going on to have any solid reads.Hand #1***** Hand History for Game 1774820119 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:39:29 EST 2005Table Table 32731 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: JaciO ( $13.75)Seat 2: bublArt ( $20.75)Seat 3: crumpentunt ( $21.5)Seat 4: Sarlic ( $1.75)Seat 5: GroT85 ( $56.5)Seat 6: SoppingSpade ( $48.75)Seat 7: ibizaa8881 ( $38.37)Seat 8: wfwrx23 ( $88.25)Seat 9: buffystar17 ( $6.5)Seat 10: pnag03 ( $23.5)pnag03 posts small blind (0.25)JaciO posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 9s, As ] bublArt folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Sarlic folds.GroT85 raises (1) to 1SoppingSpade folds.ibizaa8881 folds.wfwrx23 folds.buffystar17 folds.pnag03 folds.JaciO folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3d, 4h, Ad ] crumpentunt bets (0.5)GroT85 raises (1) to 1crumpentunt calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7d ] crumpentunt checks.GroT85 bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)** Dealing River ** : [ Tc ] crumpentunt checks.GroT85 bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $8.25 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ 3d 4h Ad 7d Tc ]Thoughts on this one are should I have led on the flop, or perhaps check/raised the flop? I had no read on the other player (4 tabling). Also, lead on the turn, or check/call the turn? The answer may seem so simple to probably everyone, but I had a hard time finding the bet +EV playHand #2***** Hand History for Game 1774769212 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:22:02 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: cavsfan138 ( $25)Seat 2: rbing ( $14.61)Seat 3: shm08 ( $9.5)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $33.38)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $7)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $38)Seat 7: dkpong83 ( $22)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $19.63)Seat 9: danh67 ( $18.5)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $39.13)shm08 posts small blind (0.25)mary_hope posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ Tc, Jc ] bobbyd50 folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)HockeyRulez folds.danh67 folds.kissMyAzS folds.rbing folds.shm08 folds.mary_hope checks.** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kc, 4c, Jh ] mary_hope bets (0.5)crumpentunt raises (1) to 1mary_hope calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ] mary_hope bets (1)crumpentunt raises (2) to 2mary_hope calls (1)** Dealing River ** : [ 6h ] mary_hope checks.crumpentunt checks.** Summary **Main Pot: $6.75 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ Kc 4c Jh 4d 6h ]The only question I have about this hand is whether raising the turn was the proper play, especially after he lead again on the turn. If he didn't lead the turn, I would have bet it again. Also, what the reasoning behind raising the turn/not raising the turn?Hand #3***** Hand History for Game 1774794321 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:30:44 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: cavsfan138 ( $28.5)Seat 2: rbing ( $11.36)Seat 3: shm08 ( $7.5)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $40.88)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $6.25)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $33.75)Seat 7: BarJohn ( $22.5)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $20.13)Seat 9: danh67 ( $15.75)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $40.63)shm08 posts small blind (0.25)mary_hope posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 4s, 4c ] bobbyd50 folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)BarJohn calls (0.5)HockeyRulez folds.danh67 calls (0.5)kissMyAzS folds.cavsfan138 folds.rbing folds.shm08 calls (0.25)mary_hope checks.** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4d, 2h, Jd ] shm08 checks.mary_hope checks.crumpentunt checks.BarJohn bets (0.5)danh67 calls (0.5)shm08 folds.mary_hope folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2d ] crumpentunt checks.BarJohn checks.danh67 checks.** Dealing River ** : [ Ad ] crumpentunt bets (1)BarJohn raises (2) to 2danh67 calls (2)crumpentunt raises (2) to 3BarJohn folds.danh67 calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $11.25 | Rake: $0.75Board: [ 4d 2h Jd 2d Ad ]Was going for the check/raise on the turn... Also, was this a decent flop to slowplay? or would have been best to raise the flop than bet the turn? or maybe check/raise the flop?Hand #4***** Hand History for Game 1774802832 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:33:38 EST 2005Table Table 25415 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: ibizaa8881 ( $20.5)Seat 2: Llooyy ( $25.25)Seat 3: uncleben111 ( $24.75)Seat 4: ddpoloswim ( $24.5)Seat 5: wrkscks ( $70.38)Seat 6: AKQJT98 ( $23.5)Seat 7: crumpentunt ( $44.75)Seat 8: jonny055 ( $29.25)Seat 9: thundercat53 ( $18.75)Seat 10: Randyb2 ( $42.75)AKQJT98 posts small blind (0.25)crumpentunt posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 9s, Qh ] jonny055 folds.thundercat53 folds.Randyb2 folds.ibizaa8881 folds.Llooyy folds.uncleben111 calls (0.5)ddpoloswim calls (0.5)wrkscks folds.AKQJT98 calls (0.25)crumpentunt checks.** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qc, 5c, Td ] AKQJT98 checks.crumpentunt bets (0.5)uncleben111 calls (0.5)ddpoloswim calls (0.5)AKQJT98 folds.** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kh ] crumpentunt checks.uncleben111 bets (1)ddpoloswim calls (1)crumpentunt folds.** Dealing River ** : [ 7s ] uncleben111 bets (1)ddpoloswim calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $7 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ Qc 5c Td Kh 7s ]Bet this turn, then fold to a raise? Check/call turn then check/call river? Thoughts? Am I being too passive when the overcard hits? Any fold equity on betting the turn (remember, its on 0.5-1.00 limit)Hand #5***** Hand History for Game 1774744270 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:13:07 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: TizLinda ( $30.75)Seat 2: rbing ( $14.24)Seat 3: shm08 ( $10)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $33.63)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $12)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $36)Seat 7: dkpong83 ( $20.5)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $25.25)Seat 9: danh67 ( $19.25)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $33.63)mary_hope posts small blind (0.25)bobbyd50 posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ As, Ac ] crumpentunt raises (1) to 1dkpong83 folds.HockeyRulez calls (1)danh67 folds.kissMyAzS folds.TizLinda folds.rbing folds.shm08 folds.danh67: sorry about the rivermary_hope folds.bobbyd50 folds.** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9h, Ah, Td ] crumpentunt bets (0.5)HockeyRulez calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2d ] crumpentunt checks.HockeyRulez bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)** Dealing River ** : [ 9c ] crumpentunt checks.HockeyRulez bets (1)crumpentunt raises (2) to 2HockeyRulez calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $9.25 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ 9h Ah Td 2d 9c ]Was maximum value extracted from this hand? Lead on the turn perhaps? Perhaps check/raise the turn? Do i have to be overly concerned he's on a flush draw (heads up chances might be low), was checking the turn too risky? Tips/thoughts/comments?Any insight whatsoever will be extremely helpful as long as the logic and reasoning behind it is explained. Thanks for reading.[/b]

[akishore 0]

hand 1 (A9s):dumpt it pre-flop when you're raised. seriously. normally, after you limp in and the pot gets raised, it's an auto-call because the pot is bigger, but here, you're heads up with a hand that does well only in multiway pots, never heads-up.why? if an ace flops, you're only going to get action when you're beat (outkicked), otherwise you'll pick up a small pot. further, an ace won't even flop that often, so most often, you'll be way behind the whole hand. so really, just fold it when you're heads-up looking at a raise. same with ATs/AJs/KJs and any offsuit hands besides AK/AQ.as for the flop, either three-bet, or check-raise your ace. if he caps or three-bets you, call and check-call it down.hand 2 (JTs):again, you're heads-up, and these hands suck heads-up. this game is seeming pretty tight, so i would switch out of this game. loose games are more profitable, so start selecting games with high flop percentages (>50% is nice).whenever you're heads-up, three-betting and check-raising are the best plays because they're aggressive and they show strength. since you were in position, though, that was a good raise, but you're right--you should only call the turn. you have only second pair right now, and you don't have any equity (explained below) to be betting/raising your flush draw. call the turn when he shows continued aggression.having equity means that you're putting in less of the money proportionally than the proportion of the time you expect to win the hand. so if you have a flush draw, it'll win 35% of the time post-flop, so if you have more than two other people in the hand, you have an equity edge. say it's four-handed... you're putting in 25% of the money but will win 35% of the time. here, you didn't have an equity edge for you to bet/raise your draw.hand 3 (44):don't slowplay a set on a coordinated/suited flop. that was one of my biggest leaks before. here, there is a possible flush draw and a straight draw, and you don't want to be giving free cards to either. when the turn comes, you can't attempt to slowplay with the boat--you're not getting paid off.best play here would be to bet on the flop, and three-bet it if someone raises you. lead out on the turn again, because it's unlikely that the 2 pairing helped anyone (if you try to checkraise here, it'll probably backfire and it'll get checked around). lead out on the river again. jam this pot up... at the microlimits, you almost never need to slowplay unless you have the nuts and are not vulnerable to draws.hand 4 (Q9o):you played it fine, but it would have been fine if you check-called it down to showdown also. if anyone raises though, you're out.hand 5 (AA):good lead on the flop, but i REALLY didn't like the check-call on the turn. the betting limits have doubled--what are you waiting for?? you really want to let him see one more card with just top set on a suited and coordinated board?check-raising the turn is VERY risky since he passively called you on the flop, so definitely lead the turn and hope he raises so you can three-bet. otherwise, if you do check, do so with the intention of raising. otherwise, attempting a check-raise on the river in ANY situation is terrible. you're very lucky you got away with it, but you still extracted very little on this hand.i know you said you'd get SSHE after finals, but that's my biggest advice--read SSHE and your low limit game will improve tenfold.aseem

[TFABOM 0]

1:Fold this pre-flop in that early of a position in a tight game. I know it's tempting, suited even, but fold, unless you are in a passive loose game where you are guaranteed plenty of calls and no raises. Even then, be careful, as a lot of weak players will limp with A-K, A-Q and have you dominated.2:You should stop calling with these marginal hands in early position. It seems like a tight game. You shouldn't be raising the turn, as you have no equity, meaning the odds ratio of what you put in to what you are getting is 1:1 on the turn. You are going to make a flush about 20% with one card to go, and 36% from the flop. You should only put in money when there are 3+ people that are guaranteed to call on the turn, meaning 3:1. Seeing as she bet again into you, I think you are beat at this point with just your jacks. Just call.3: This is what happens when slowplaying goes wrong, you lose a round of betting. Check raise the flop, bet the turn. You could have slowplayed this more successfully had you been in position, and on the turn if not able to raise, at least bet it and not lose that round.4:Eh, it's ok, unless the bettor is loose-aggressive.5:Well, since you decided to check the turn, why didn't you check raise him, then bet the river, instead of the other way around?

[TFABOM 0]

hand 1 (A9s):dumpt it pre-flop when you're raised. seriously. normally, after you limp in and the pot gets raised, it's an auto-call because the pot is bigger, but here, you're heads up with a hand that does well only in multiway pots, never heads-up.as for the flop, either three-bet, or check-raise your ace. if he caps or three-bets you, call and check-call it down.

Dumping that is a good point.3 betting is too much. If you have to show it down, either bet the flop, call the raise, then call the rest, or just check call all the way down. This might seem weak, but you have A-9 here. 3 betting is putting 1 more big bet into the pot when you could have just check called, or at least saved 1 small bet by calling the raise. :wink:

hand 2 (JTs):so if you have a flush draw, it'll win 35% of the time post-flop, so if you have more than two other people in the hand, you have an equity edge. say it's four-handed... you're putting in 25% of the money but will win 35% of the time. here, you didn't have an equity edge for you to bet/raise your draw.

3 people is marginal, 4 is good, 4+ is great.

[crumpentunt 0]

Thanks for the response, I really do appreciate any feedback I get. I do however have some questions.Hand #1I still feel from my experience after the limp, I should still call. I feel when an ace does flop (also a limited amount of time), the people are usually calling stations no matter if an ace is on the flop or not, and most will call me down to the river with absolutely anything. I still feel it is worth calling preflop with A9s headsup or the other hands you mentioned. I might try the 3 betting preflop, then calling the cap and check/folding the turn, does that make more sense? Anyone else have any comments on this hand?Hand #2it's true I am headsup, but I can be pretty confident against only the BB in this hand. I now understand more about pot equity and will not raise the turn in similar situations as this. Next time I check/call turn and check/call river UI.Hand #3I am having trouble agreeing with this reply the most of any of the replies. Why 3bet the flop if I bet and am raised? Now that I think of it, I should have bet out on the flop, then if it is raised, call the raise, then check/raise the turn... Does this sound better? Actually, I just reviewed the action and I see that the risk of it getting checked around on the turn was too many lost bets to justify going for the check/raise. Next time I will lead on the flop/3 bet if raised, bet turn and river. Anyone else see another way of playing it?Hand #4Understand more on how it should be played, thanks.Hand #5Next time I bet/3bet the turn if raised and bet the river. I feel the plays I made in this hand were too risky of being checked around and losing bets. Why is a river check/raise in any situation just horrible?About SSHE, not much longer till after finals and I am really excited about reading it.

[crumpentunt 0]

Just read the last 2 posts.Hand #1I find it hard to keep track of all the tables and which ones are loose and which ones are passive. I need to work on this. I will now fold preflop A9s and JTs in a tight game and similar hands, thanks.Hand #3I check/raise the flop, bet turn and river next time. All agree?

[TFABOM 0]

Hand # 1I might try the 3 betting preflop, then calling the cap and check/folding the turn, does that make more sense? Anyone else have any comments on this hand?

You mean on the flop? I think 3 betting is too much.I think if you are going to showdown, you should just check call all the way down. If you think he's strong, with the good ace, call the raise and check fold the turn.

Hand #3

Remember, you are out of position. You can slowplay this in position, being the last to act so that on the turn, if no one bets {where you can raise}, at least you can put in a bet.Good luck. :wink:

[crumpentunt 0]

Yes, for Hand #1 I meant on the flop. However after rereading everything, I've decided I will fold this preflop or check/call all the way down if i do call and the ace flops. So many people overplay Axo in 0.5-1.00 that I believe it is worth calling down.Thanks for all the help.

[akishore 0]

Hand #1I still feel from my experience after the limp, I should still call. I feel when an ace does flop (also a limited amount of time), the people are usually calling stations no matter if an ace is on the flop or not, and most will call me down to the river with absolutely anything. I still feel it is worth calling preflop with A9s headsup or the other hands you mentioned. I might try the 3 betting preflop, then calling the cap and check/folding the turn, does that make more sense? Anyone else have any comments on this hand?

it's normally true that after you limp, you should call. however, think about it like this: an ace will only flop about 1 in 6 times. if you call that raise everytime, and assuming you fold on the flop if your ace doesn't hit, you lose 2.5 big bets (5 small bets) by calling that preflop raise. the 6th time, what is your EV (expected value)?while many people will call down even if an ace hits, you have what we call big reverse implied odds. that is, if you're beaten, you'll lose a LOT of money, and if you're not beaten, you'll only pick up 2.5 bets when they call you down. even assuming that you win the hand everytime an ace hits, you win 2.5 bets 1 in 6 times and lose 2.5 bets total the other 5 times, so you have 0 EV. but now take into consideration the fact that a lot of times, or even half of the time, an ace flopping will leave you with the second-best hand, and it's easy to see why calling with A9s and similar hands heads-up to a raise is -EV. make sense? let me know if i should explain further.

Hand #3I am having trouble agreeing with this reply the most of any of the replies. Why 3bet the flop if I bet and am raised? Now that I think of it, I should have bet out on the flop, then if it is raised, call the raise, then check/raise the turn... Does this sound better? Actually, I just reviewed the action and I see that the risk of it getting checked around on the turn was too many lost bets to justify going for the check/raise. Next time I will lead on the flop/3 bet if raised, bet turn and river. Anyone else see another way of playing it?-and-Hand #3 I check/raise the flop, bet turn and river next time. All agree?

just to explain, 3-betting is for value. if you lead out and you are raised, you can safely still assume that you have the best hand. it is rare that this hand is set over set, and in the rare occurence that it is (and by rare i mean EXTREMELY rare--take the odds of two players in a ring game both getting PP's and both flopping sets), you're going to pay off the higher set anyway. especially in multiway pots, you 3-bet for value because almost everyone will call one or two more after they've already put in one or two bets.so either check-raise the flop, or just bet out, hope to get raised, and 3-bet the turn. the reason i like to bet out in early position is because the risk of it getting checked around far is too dangerous IMHO. if someone is going to bet out (if you check), they're almost as likely to raise your bet, giving you an opportunity to 3-bet. either way you play it, lead out on the turn. too many people get gunshy on the turn after they bet the flop, plus, many hands drop on the turn anyway, so you can't risk it getting checked around when the betting limits have doubled. because of this, i'm not a big fan of check-raising on the turn unless it's heads-up against an aggressive opponent, or i'm certain that the flop aggressor has reason to continue betting on the turn. it's just too risky IMHO.

Hand #5Next time I bet/3bet the turn if raised and bet the river. I feel the plays I made in this hand were too risky of being checked around and losing bets. Why is a river check/raise in any situation just horrible?

like i said above, i'm not a big fan of checkraising the turn unless you're sure your opponent is aggressive. as for the river, the reason a check-raise on the river is very risky, is that too many players check it down if they can see a free showdown. in fact, that's actually the correct play when you have a good/strong hand but a draw hit, or if you have a marginal hand that you think can beat a draw. check-raising the river is the riskiest thing you can do besides check-raising the turn against a passive opponent.let me know if you have any more questions. it's great that you're posting hands and asking questions and finding leaks in your game... it's the only way you learn and get better. you're going to be making a lot of money in no time if you keep asking and when you read SSHE. seriously, good for you. too many players (i don't mean FCP posters) have some kind of ego problem where they don't really want to learn or understand why their plays are wrong, etc., but you are obviously not one of them. good for you. :-) aseem

[akishore 0]

just realized that my math was a little off in the hand #1 explanation as for A9s EV heads-up against a raise. i forgot to take into account his pre-flop raise, so let me try it again.assume that an ace hits 1 in 6 times on the flop, and that you will check-fold if it doesn't.each time the ace doesn't hit, you lose 0.5 big bets for calling the raise. that adds up to 2.5 big bets total.each time the ace hits, let's say it's the best hand and your opponent calls it down. you win 3.5 big bets from your opponent (1 big bet pre-flop, 0.5 bets on the flop, 1 big bet each on the turn and river).let's go further and say that each time the ace hits, you have the best hand, but your opponent doesn't believe you, so he raises your flop lead, and you even three-bet to extract as much as you can. so this time, each time you win 4.5 big bets from your opponent.so now it seems that you will be +2 big bets every 6 hands. now we cut back a few assumptions.let's say it's best only half the time.if your opponent check-calls it down for some strange reason, you will win 3.5 bets 1 in 12 times, lose 3.5+0.5 bets 1 in 12 times, and lose 0.5 bets each the remaining 10 of 12 times. that means, against a passive opponent, you will lose 5.5 big bets every 12 hands. this is definitely -EV by a lot.if your opponent raises and you three-bet (and he calls and check-calls it down) every time the ace hits, you will win 4.5 bets 1 in 12 times, lose 4.5+0.5 bets 1 in 12 times, and lose 0.5 bets each the remaining 10 of 12 times. this is still losing 5.5 big bets every 12 hands, again -EV.as if this isn't enough, in truth, you will lose even more. why? because only the most aggressive players will raise with KQ/KK/etc on an A-high flop, and only the most passive players will check-call it down when they have you beat. this means that you won't win as much when you're winning, and you'll lose at least the same or more when you're losing.this makes calling A9s/ATs/etc -EV even when you've limped in but are facing a HU raise.aseemp.s. just wondering, are you a NL player, or do you play NL games with your friends? a lot of your play screams "NL" to me, so if you are/do, i can give you some tips to change your play from NL to limit.

[crumpentunt 0]

Thanks for the props and for the help. I really want to learn this and be successful. When I put my mind to something I usually go all out.One last comment.Hand #3I understood the 3 betting was for value. My reasoning by just calling his raise (if he did raise me on the flop), and then check raising the turn, is that I will get an extra 0.5BB if he calls me down to the river as opposed to 3betting the flop and then having him call my turn bet and my river bet.So lets assume for now, that in this hand I bet and then was raised on the flop. I want to study these two options.Option #1Calling his raise on the flop, and then check/raising him on the turnProsAn extra 0.5BB if he calls my check raise and calls my river betMay also gain more if the player after him calls his bet as well and then my check/raise.ConsMight get checked around on the turnOption #23 bet the flop and then lead on the turn and then riverProsBetting might get capped on the flopCharging flush draws the maximum (is this even a pro?)ConsMost likely a smaller pot than Option #1May lose the other player with the 3 bet on the flopWell, my reasoning is probably filled with so many holes and so on. But, looking at everything, which option is best? Is it close? Or is it not even close, and Option #2 is clearly the best answer...

[crumpentunt 0]

Just read your most recent post, thanks for explaining the math detailed like that, I read it a few times and understand it and it will make my decision if this situation comes up again alot easier.I used to play NL usually with a group of guys. Never really understand the theory or concepts behind NL, so I dont know if there is much to change haha.. Most of all my skills in NL were not playing the cards but playing the people. I haven't played NL online, and know I wouldn't fare well.

[crumpentunt 0]

Actually, don't understand this line "lose 3.5+0.5 bets 1 in 12 times". Where does the extra 0.5 bets come from when I lose? (we're assuming its checked/called down, correct?)

[woutoR 0]

you need to bet more when hitting those sets, they dont know you got pocket 4's/A's you need to bet bet bet when they hit the flop dont think about slowplaying them

[akishore 0]

Option #1Calling his raise on the flop, and then check/raising him on the turnProsAn extra 0.5BB if he calls my check raise and calls my river betMay also gain more if the player after him calls his bet as well and then my check/raise.ConsMight get checked around on the turnOption #23 bet the flop and then lead on the turn and then riverProsBetting might get capped on the flopCharging flush draws the maximum (is this even a pro?)ConsMost likely a smaller pot than Option #1May lose the other player with the 3 bet on the flop

the con of option 1 seems to outweigh the cons of option 2.on the flop, consider this: a third diamond landing is a scare card for any non-flush hand. the board pairing the 2's (which happened) is also a scare card--how many hands would bet with a 2? if a bad card lands on the turn, you'll either be beat by the flush, or the turn will get checked around. if it's checked around, you've lost a possible 3 big bets (1 on the flop from a possible three-bet, 2 on the turn from just leading out). this means that over the flop and the turn, you gained 1 big bet from each player for a total of 2 big bets. if you lead out on the flop, don't get raised, and lead out again on the turn, you'll have gained 2 big bets from each player for a total of 4 big bets. see how the worst case of option 1 is much worse than the worst case of option 2?and the other reason is that, yes, you want to charge draws the maximum. it doesn't matter if they have pot odds, what matters is that you have an equity edge. with a strong holding like a set, you will win this hand much more than 20% of the times (the amount of money you are putting in this five-way pot). even when two people fold, you still expect to win this hand more than 33% of the time. at the same time, your hand is vulnerable to something like a backdoor flush draw or a higher PP, so you want to know those hands out by showing aggression. the key in winning low limit HE is to get as much in as you can with an equity edge, and make the pots as big as possible, but also to protect your hand when the pot is large.finally, the biggest con of option 1 is the inherent danger in going for a checkraise on the turn. again, a scare card could come off, or the raiser might have been raising on a free card play (with a flush draw). he might have been raising with a weak top pair, and an overcard might land, so he might check on the turn thinking he's beaten. he might be raising bottom two pair, and the top card might pair. it's just a little risky using the B/c-C/R (bet/call, check-raise) line.however, it does depend on the game. if you have a read or reason to believe that the raiser will bet again, attempt a checkraise on the turn. i would probably prefer to three-bet and hope he caps in that case, though. that earns me even more. see what i mean? if he has reason to bet again on the turn, you're either beat (flush hit) or he would have capped it on the flop anyway.aseem

[akishore 0]

I used to play NL usually with a group of guys. Never really understand the theory or concepts behind NL, so I dont know if there is much to change haha.. Most of all my skills in NL were not playing the cards but playing the people. I haven't played NL online, and know I wouldn't fare well.

oh okay. it seemed like you tended to try to trap with hands a lot. that often works well in NL, it's what you're supposed to do, but generally, fastplay everything but a monster hand in limit, and even with monsters, it usually plays more just to fastplay them since people have draws that they wouldn't bet on, etc.aseem

[akishore 0]

Actually, don't understand this line "lose 3.5+0.5 bets 1 in 12 times". Where does the extra 0.5 bets come from when I lose? (we're assuming its checked/called down, correct?)

my mistake. i was thinking that the 3.5 bets didn't include the pre-flop raise, but they did.aseem

[TFABOM 0]

Yeah, slow playing hand #3 is a risky play in position with that flop.Someone could be holding A-3, A-5 and would call one SB to try and hit it on the turn.

[KramitDaToad 0]

hand 1 (A9s):dumpt it pre-flop when you're raised. seriously. normally, after you limp in and the pot gets raised, it's an auto-call because the pot is bigger, but here, you're heads up with a hand that does well only in multiway pots, never heads-up.

Aseem,That is criminally bad advice - I expect better from you.If you have voluntarily put money in the pot you don't fold preflop to a one bet raise

[akishore 0]

hand 1 (A9s):dumpt it pre-flop when you're raised. seriously. normally, after you limp in and the pot gets raised, it's an auto-call because the pot is bigger, but here, you're heads up with a hand that does well only in multiway pots, never heads-up.

Aseem,That is criminally bad advice - I expect better from you.If you have voluntarily put money in the pot you don't fold preflop to a one bet raise

i think in most cases that's true, but it's not the case with A9s heads-up. sklansky recommends folding even ATs to a heads-up raise even if you only have to call one small bet (e.g. you're the big blind, or you've limped in) if someone has raised and it'll be heads-up if you call.it's really rare for me to fold pre-flop to a raise after i've limped. really rare. but i don't think it's necessarily wrong. there's always a time and a situation for something, and i think this is it. let me know if i'm wrong.aseem

[KramitDaToad 0]

i think in most cases that's true, but it's not the case with A9s heads-up. sklansky recommends folding even ATs to a heads-up raise even if you only have to call one small bet (e.g. you're the big blind, or you've limped in) if someone has raised and it'll be heads-up if you call.

Where?Let me quote Sklansky from SSHE p60 (He is talking about why you don't limp with weak holdings up fromt)if you limp in up front with a hand like J:spade:9:spade: or Q:spade:J:club: you are counting on the pot not being raised behind you. If it is raised , your call will have been unprofitable (here he is referring to the initial limp) You should call the raise (the pot will be too big to fold), but you will wish that you had folded for the first betI think there may be other quotes in SSHE if not, definately elsewhere to support this.(EDIT: there is - footnote 32 on page 61)Facing the raise you are getting 4.5 to 1 to call, and you have committed money to the pot without seeing the flop.There is only one hand you are getting insufficient odds to call, AA.Nobody can be that scared...There is a massive difference if you are in the BB. Here you can fold.When you limp you must call.

it's really rare for me to fold pre-flop to a raise after i've limped. really rare. but i don't think it's necessarily wrong. there's always a time and a situation for something, and i think this is it. let me know if i'm wrong.aseem

you are wrong :wink: fold if its 2 bets by all means, but not to one.

[crumpentunt 0]

Thanks for the responses. Next time I solve all of this and don't limp with A-9s in a tight game. One thing I dont understand is why it is incorrect to call a Heads up raise in the BB with A9s or A10s but it is correct if you have limped, and then to call the heads up raise. Actually, just did the math and its 3.5 to 1 on your call in the BB as compared to 4.5 to 1 on your call after you've limped.I'm learning! Maybe later today or tomorrow I will have another 5 trouble hands to post. Till then. See yah.

[nasnorab 0]

Here's the deal. It looks like you have some grasp of the type of hands you want to play but make playing them harder on yourself than they have to be. The other posters have made some good points regarding specific hand selection and the lines you shouldve taken on the specific hands. I am going to make a more broad suggestion. Until you are very comfortable determining the texture of every game you sit in, never enter the pot first without raising. If you are uncomfortable raising with a hand as the first player in, that is a good indication that it is not worth playing in that position. This will then allow you to a) take control of the action and B) make your postflop decisions much easier. The benefits to this are numerous. You force players to make a bigger mistakes by coldcalling two bets with inferior hands. You win many more small pots uncontested pre-flop and after a ragged flop. You establish position on the field oftentimes. You are often checked to on the flop. You can make the best hand fold post-flop due to the advertised strength of your hand. You force players to play their hands "face up" by three betting you with their biggest holdings allowing you to escape relatively cheaply if you partially hit the flop or miss. And most importantly in your situation, you cut down on the amount of marginal postflop decisions you face. Certainly this style has it drawbacks. You will be checkraised more (though you'll know they have a big hand at that point which is valuable) and people might perceive you as loose aggressive and call you down without much when you are holding just high cards but more often than not that is to your benefit. I would go as far as to say that there are very few situations other than when you have position and a large number of people are in the pot that entering without a raise is correct. Best of luck. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to talk to you about them.

[JFarrell20 1]

***** Hand History for Game 1774820119 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:39:29 EST 2005Table Table 32731 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: JaciO ( $13.75)Seat 2: bublArt ( $20.75)Seat 3: crumpentunt ( $21.5)Seat 4: Sarlic ( $1.75)Seat 5: GroT85 ( $56.5)Seat 6: SoppingSpade ( $48.75)Seat 7: ibizaa8881 ( $38.37)Seat 8: wfwrx23 ( $88.25)Seat 9: buffystar17 ( $6.5)Seat 10: pnag03 ( $23.5)pnag03 posts small blind (0.25)JaciO posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 9s, As ] bublArt folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Sarlic folds.GroT85 raises (1) to 1SoppingSpade folds.ibizaa8881 folds.wfwrx23 folds.buffystar17 folds.pnag03 folds.JaciO folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Calling a raise with this hand in a heads-up pot probably isn't even worth it. Folding here is actually OK. You play A9s to make a flush in a multi-way pot. Calling here is also totally fine because the dead blind money is in there.** Dealing Flop ** : [ 3d, 4h, Ad ] crumpentunt bets (0.5)Don't bet out here. Automatic check/call. If he checks behind you, then lead out on the turn. Check/call trying to hit a 9 that is not a heart. This is a good example of why not to get involved in a heads up battle to a pre-flop raiser with A9.GroT85 raises (1) to 1crumpentunt calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7d ] crumpentunt checks.Good.GroT85 bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)Not good. You are beat.** Dealing River ** : [ Tc ] crumpentunt checks.GroT85 bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)Again, most people will say you have to call here, but I say fold it. You shouldn't even be in this spot though because you have to fold to his turn bet.** Summary **Main Pot: $8.25 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ 3d 4h Ad 7d Tc ]Thoughts on this one are should I have led on the flop, or perhaps check/raised the flop? I had no read on the other player (4 tabling). Also, lead on the turn, or check/call the turn? The answer may seem so simple to probably everyone, but I had a hard time finding the bet +EV playHand #2***** Hand History for Game 1774769212 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:22:02 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: cavsfan138 ( $25)Seat 2: rbing ( $14.61)Seat 3: shm08 ( $9.5)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $33.38)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $7)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $38)Seat 7: dkpong83 ( $22)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $19.63)Seat 9: danh67 ( $18.5)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $39.13)shm08 posts small blind (0.25)mary_hope posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ Tc, Jc ] bobbyd50 folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Fine. Try to limp into a multi-way pot with a speculative hand. Totally fine.HockeyRulez folds.danh67 folds.kissMyAzS folds.rbing folds.shm08 folds.mary_hope checks.Heads up?? Tight table...** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kc, 4c, Jh ] mary_hope bets (0.5)crumpentunt raises (1) to 1What is the raise for here? It's OK because you've got a "robust holding" as Sklansky would say. I'd probably raise, too, hoping she's got a king and that I'll redraw to a flush. mary_hope calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4d ] mary_hope bets (1)crumpentunt raises (2) to 2Don't raise here. You've got 12 outs to improve to two-pair or better. If she has a king you are about a 3-to-1 dog. Smooth call here.mary_hope calls (1)** Dealing River ** : [ 6h ] mary_hope checks.crumpentunt checks.Checking is OK here. Betting isn't horrible either. Checking is fine, though.** Summary **Main Pot: $6.75 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ Kc 4c Jh 4d 6h ]The only question I have about this hand is whether raising the turn was the proper play, especially after he lead again on the turn. If he didn't lead the turn, I would have bet it again. Also, what the reasoning behind raising the turn/not raising the turn?Hand #3***** Hand History for Game 1774794321 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:30:44 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: cavsfan138 ( $28.5)Seat 2: rbing ( $11.36)Seat 3: shm08 ( $7.5)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $40.88)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $6.25)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $33.75)Seat 7: BarJohn ( $22.5)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $20.13)Seat 9: danh67 ( $15.75)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $40.63)shm08 posts small blind (0.25)mary_hope posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 4s, 4c ] bobbyd50 folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)BarJohn calls (0.5)HockeyRulez folds.danh67 calls (0.5)kissMyAzS folds.cavsfan138 folds.rbing folds.shm08 calls (0.25)mary_hope checks.** Dealing Flop ** : [ 4d, 2h, Jd ] shm08 checks.mary_hope checks.crumpentunt checks.Bet out here, protect your hand from the diamond draw. Build the pot at the same time. Only check if you're planning to check-raise.BarJohn bets (0.5)danh67 calls (0.5)shm08 folds.mary_hope folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Again, RAISE here. RAISE. Automatic. So automatic it hurts.** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2d ] crumpentunt checks.Bet this. Please. Don't even mess around with a check/raise here. Bet out. The third diamond is likely to help one of your two opponents. You should get action by betting out here. You've got a boat.BarJohn checks.danh67 checks.** Dealing River ** : [ Ad ] crumpentunt bets (1)Good.BarJohn raises (2) to 2danh67 calls (2)crumpentunt raises (2) to 3Very good.BarJohn folds.danh67 calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $11.25 | Rake: $0.75Board: [ 4d 2h Jd 2d Ad ]Was going for the check/raise on the turn... Also, was this a decent flop to slowplay? or would have been best to raise the flop than bet the turn? or maybe check/raise the flop?Hand #4***** Hand History for Game 1774802832 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:33:38 EST 2005Table Table 25415 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: ibizaa8881 ( $20.5)Seat 2: Llooyy ( $25.25)Seat 3: uncleben111 ( $24.75)Seat 4: ddpoloswim ( $24.5)Seat 5: wrkscks ( $70.38)Seat 6: AKQJT98 ( $23.5)Seat 7: crumpentunt ( $44.75)Seat 8: jonny055 ( $29.25)Seat 9: thundercat53 ( $18.75)Seat 10: Randyb2 ( $42.75)AKQJT98 posts small blind (0.25)crumpentunt posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 9s, Qh ] jonny055 folds.thundercat53 folds.Randyb2 folds.ibizaa8881 folds.Llooyy folds.uncleben111 calls (0.5)ddpoloswim calls (0.5)wrkscks folds.AKQJT98 calls (0.25)crumpentunt checks.** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qc, 5c, Td ] AKQJT98 checks.crumpentunt bets (0.5)uncleben111 calls (0.5)ddpoloswim calls (0.5)AKQJT98 folds.** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kh ] crumpentunt checks.uncleben111 bets (1)ddpoloswim calls (1)crumpentunt folds.I see no problem with this. Coordinated board...two callers. Easy fold. You played this hand correctly.** Dealing River ** : [ 7s ] uncleben111 bets (1)ddpoloswim calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $7 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ Qc 5c Td Kh 7s ]Bet this turn, then fold to a raise? Check/call turn then check/call river? Thoughts? Am I being too passive when the overcard hits? Any fold equity on betting the turn (remember, its on 0.5-1.00 limit)Hand #5***** Hand History for Game 1774744270 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Tue Mar 22 12:13:07 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: TizLinda ( $30.75)Seat 2: rbing ( $14.24)Seat 3: shm08 ( $10)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $33.63)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $12)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $36)Seat 7: dkpong83 ( $20.5)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $25.25)Seat 9: danh67 ( $19.25)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $33.63)mary_hope posts small blind (0.25)bobbyd50 posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ As, Ac ] crumpentunt raises (1) to 1dkpong83 folds.HockeyRulez calls (1)danh67 folds.kissMyAzS folds.TizLinda folds.rbing folds.shm08 folds.danh67: sorry about the rivermary_hope folds.bobbyd50 folds.** Dealing Flop ** : [ 9h, Ah, Td ] crumpentunt bets (0.5)HockeyRulez calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 2d ] crumpentunt checks.Why check here? Bet this.HockeyRulez bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)C/R is probably better.** Dealing River ** : [ 9c ] crumpentunt checks.Bet.HockeyRulez bets (1)crumpentunt raises (2) to 2I'm more likely to bet out here than to check-raise due to the 9's on the board, but check/raising here is probably a high % play. I'd rather bet out and have to call a raise, than check/raise and get three-bet by a guy with 9-rag.HockeyRulez calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $9.25 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ 9h Ah Td 2d 9c ]Was maximum value extracted from this hand? Lead on the turn perhaps? Perhaps check/raise the turn? Do i have to be overly concerned he's on a flush draw (heads up chances might be low), was checking the turn too risky? Tips/thoughts/comments?Any insight whatsoever will be extremely helpful as long as the logic and reasoning behind it is explained. Thanks for reading.[/b]

[KramitDaToad 0]

One thing I dont understand is why it is incorrect to call a Heads up raise in the BB with A9s or A10s but it is correct if you have limped, and then to call the heads up raise. Actually, just did the math and its 3.5 to 1 on your call in the BB as compared to 4.5 to 1 on your call after you've limped.

Actually the differing pot odds aren't the reason. 3.5 to 1 is still enough to call, so if it was raised from the BB to your EP limp you still call.The reason the blinds are different is that you haven't voluntarily put any money in the pot. You do get a discount to play, but you have to pay the blind regardless.If its raised to you in the BB by an early-mid position player you can fold, avoiding a heads up with strong cards out of position. A late position raise may be a steal, but thats a whole different ball game.There are multiple reasons to call after limping, but 2 simple ones are...1) You've got the pot odds to call.2) By folding you are giving any astute player a huge advantage over you. When they observe this any time in the future you limp they will raise you with more marginal holdings. This becomes +EV for them as there is a chance you will fold. Once this is in play, you may actually be folding the best handThere are other reasons, but suffice to say that the reason you don't play marginal holdings up front in a normal to aggressive game is because you have to call a single raise, making it too expensive to play Axs, low pairs etc.Onto the next piece of advice.It looks like you've only been here for a while, so I'm not sure if you know to take JFarrell's advice with a pinch of salt or not. In fact take it with a bucket of salt and some pepper too.Read on...

***** Hand History for Game 1774820119 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit)  - Tue Mar 22 12:39:29 EST 2005Table Table  32731 (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: JaciO ( $13.75)Seat 2: bublArt ( $20.75)Seat 3: crumpentunt ( $21.5)Seat 4: Sarlic ( $1.75)Seat 5: GroT85 ( $56.5)Seat 6: SoppingSpade ( $48.75)Seat 7: ibizaa8881 ( $38.37)Seat 8: wfwrx23 ( $88.25)Seat 9: buffystar17 ( $6.5)Seat 10: pnag03 ( $23.5)pnag03  posts small blind (0.25)JaciO  posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 9s, As ]  bublArt folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Sarlic folds.GroT85 raises (1) to 1SoppingSpade folds.ibizaa8881 folds.wfwrx23 folds.buffystar17 folds.pnag03 folds.JaciO folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Calling a raise with this hand in a heads-up pot probably isn't even worth it. Folding here is actually OK.  See Aseem - here is more proof.  If JFarrell backs you up you are on very shaky ground   8) You play A9s to make a flush in a multi-way pot.  Calling here is also totally fine because the dead blind money is in there** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 3d, 4h, Ad ]  crumpentunt bets (0.5)Don't bet out here.  Automatic check/call.  If he checks behind you, then lead out on the turn.  Check/call trying to hit a 9 that is not a heart.  This is a good example of why not to get involved in a heads up battle to a pre-flop raiser with A9.Having gotten ourselves into this awkward position we need to make a decision.  Check/calling is about the worst thing you can do.It is likley that your opponent has a better Ace than you, however KQ, KK-TT are raising hands and aggressive opponents will also raise with 99-77 to isolate.Either give the hand up now whilst the pot is small, or if you want to take a crack at it check-raise.  If you do check-raise and are raised back then you can get out of there.  In marginal situations with small pots give up on a hand early.Without a read on the opponent I would go with the fold as we are out of position and have dug ourselves a domination holeGroT85 raises (1) to 1crumpentunt calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 7d ]  crumpentunt checks.Good.GroT85 bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)Not good.  You are beat.** Dealing River ** :  [ Tc ]  crumpentunt checks.GroT85 bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)Again, most people will say you have to call here, but I say fold it.  You shouldn't even be in this spot though because you have to fold to his turn bet.Having finally gotten here at huge expense the pot has about 8 big bets in it.  You call.  You have top pair, crappy kicker, but only need to be ahead 1 time in 8 to show a profit.The mistakes were made ealier in the hand just getting here.  Folding here would cap it off tragically.** Summary **Main Pot: $8.25 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ 3d 4h Ad 7d Tc  ]Thoughts on this one are should I have led on the flop, or perhaps check/raised the flop?  I had no read on the other player (4 tabling).  Also, lead on the turn, or check/call the turn?  The answer may seem so simple to probably everyone, but I had a hard time finding the bet +EV playHand #2***** Hand History for Game 1774769212 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit)  - Tue Mar 22 12:22:02 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: cavsfan138 ( $25)Seat 2: rbing ( $14.61)Seat 3: shm08 ( $9.5)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $33.38)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $7)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $38)Seat 7: dkpong83 ( $22)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $19.63)Seat 9: danh67 ( $18.5)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $39.13)shm08  posts small blind (0.25)mary_hope  posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ Tc, Jc ]  bobbyd50 folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Fine.  Try to limp into a multi-way pot with a speculative hand.  Totally fine.Yes, JTs is a lot better than A9s to limp in EP with because its the best drawing hand there is and should be  easier to get away from but there is no harm in leaving it out in EP until your confident of your play or you have the perfect tableHockeyRulez folds.danh67 folds.kissMyAzS folds.rbing folds.shm08 folds.mary_hope checks.Heads up?? Tight table...** Dealing Flop ** :  [ Kc, 4c, Jh ]  mary_hope bets (0.5)crumpentunt raises (1) to 1What is the raise for here?  It's OK because you've got a "robust holding" as Sklansky would say.  I'd probably raise, too, hoping she's got a king and that I'll redraw to a flush.  with probably 14 outs (15 for the back door straight) and against a random hand ie the BB you are going to win this hand 85% of the time.  A raise is compulsary.mary_hope calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 4d ]  mary_hope bets (1)crumpentunt raises (2) to 2Don't raise here.  You've got 12 outs to improve to two-pair or better.  If she has a king you are about a 3-to-1 dog.  Smooth call here.You already have 2 pair, however your bigger 2 pair outs are no longer any good, and your back door straight has gone out... well the back door, so your down to 10 outs.JF is right with the 3-1, enough to call down.  Raising is good for a free showdown, but you have to know your opponent well if you want to try thismary_hope calls (1)** Dealing River ** :  [ 6h ]  mary_hope checks.crumpentunt checks.Checking is OK here.  Betting isn't horrible either.  Checking is fine, though.Betting is horrible there is almost nothing that you beat that will call and anything that does beat you will call.** Summary **Main Pot: $6.75 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ Kc 4c Jh 4d 6h  ]The only question I have about this hand is whether raising the turn was the proper play, especially after he lead again on the turn.  If he didn't lead the turn, I would have bet it again.  Also, what the reasoning behind raising the turn/not raising the turn?raising for a free showdown or to snap off a bluff Hand #3***** Hand History for Game 1774794321 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit)  - Tue Mar 22 12:30:44 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: cavsfan138 ( $28.5)Seat 2: rbing ( $11.36)Seat 3: shm08 ( $7.5)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $40.88)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $6.25)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $33.75)Seat 7: BarJohn ( $22.5)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $20.13)Seat 9: danh67 ( $15.75)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $40.63)shm08  posts small blind (0.25)mary_hope  posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 4s, 4c ]  bobbyd50 folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)BarJohn calls (0.5)HockeyRulez folds.danh67 calls (0.5)kissMyAzS folds.cavsfan138 folds.rbing folds.shm08 calls (0.25)mary_hope checks.** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 4d, 2h, Jd ]  shm08 checks.mary_hope checks.crumpentunt checks.Bet out here, protect your hand from the diamond draw.  Build the pot at the same time.  Only check if you're planning to check-raise.BarJohn bets (0.5)danh67 calls (0.5)shm08 folds.mary_hope folds.crumpentunt calls (0.5)Again, RAISE here.  RAISE.  Automatic.  So automatic it hurts.he's got this right!** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 2d ]  crumpentunt checks.Bet this.  Please.  Don't even mess around with a check/raise here.  Bet out.  The third diamond is likely to help one of your two opponents.  You should get action by betting out here.  You've got a boat.BarJohn checks.danh67 checks.** Dealing River ** :  [ Ad ]  crumpentunt bets (1)Good.BarJohn raises (2) to 2danh67 calls (2)crumpentunt raises (2) to 3Very good.BarJohn folds.danh67 calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $11.25 | Rake: $0.75Board: [ 4d 2h Jd 2d Ad  ]Was going for the check/raise on the turn...  Also, was this a decent flop to slowplay?  or would have been best to raise the flop than bet the turn?  or maybe check/raise the flop?Keep betting - you've got a monster.  The only way the turn and river get capped is if you play it fastHand #4***** Hand History for Game 1774802832 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit)  - Tue Mar 22 12:33:38 EST 2005Table Table  25415 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: ibizaa8881 ( $20.5)Seat 2: Llooyy ( $25.25)Seat 3: uncleben111 ( $24.75)Seat 4: ddpoloswim ( $24.5)Seat 5: wrkscks ( $70.38)Seat 6: AKQJT98 ( $23.5)Seat 7: crumpentunt ( $44.75)Seat 8: jonny055 ( $29.25)Seat 9: thundercat53 ( $18.75)Seat 10: Randyb2 ( $42.75)AKQJT98  posts small blind (0.25)crumpentunt  posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ 9s, Qh ]  jonny055 folds.thundercat53 folds.Randyb2 folds.ibizaa8881 folds.Llooyy folds.uncleben111 calls (0.5)ddpoloswim calls (0.5)wrkscks folds.AKQJT98 calls (0.25)crumpentunt checks.** Dealing Flop ** :  [ Qc, 5c, Td ]  AKQJT98 checks.crumpentunt bets (0.5)uncleben111 calls (0.5)ddpoloswim calls (0.5)AKQJT98 folds.** Dealing Turn ** :  [ Kh ]  crumpentunt checks.uncleben111 bets (1)ddpoloswim calls (1)crumpentunt folds.I see no problem with this.  Coordinated board...two callers.  Easy fold.  You played this hand correctly.You weren't raised on the flop.  There is a  good chance you are still ahead.  Lead the turn, if it gets raised here you still have outs to anything except AJ which may have raised preflop anyway.Its borderline but this pot is building to a larger one and you need to protect your hand.** Dealing River ** :  [ 7s ]  uncleben111 bets (1)ddpoloswim calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $7 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ Qc 5c Td Kh 7s  ]Bet this turn, then fold to a raise?  Check/call turn then check/call river?  Thoughts?  Am I being too passive when the overcard hits?  Any fold equity on betting the turn (remember, its on 0.5-1.00 limit)Hand #5***** Hand History for Game 1774744270 *****0.5/1 TexasHTGameTable (Limit)  - Tue Mar 22 12:13:07 EST 2005Table Aamburger Special (Real Money) -- Seat 3 is the buttonTotal number of players : 10Seat 1: TizLinda ( $30.75)Seat 2: rbing ( $14.24)Seat 3: shm08 ( $10)Seat 4: mary_hope ( $33.63)Seat 5: bobbyd50 ( $12)Seat 6: crumpentunt ( $36)Seat 7: dkpong83 ( $20.5)Seat 8: HockeyRulez ( $25.25)Seat 9: danh67 ( $19.25)Seat 10: kissMyAzS ( $33.63)mary_hope  posts small blind (0.25)bobbyd50  posts big blind (0.5)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to crumpentunt [ As, Ac ]  crumpentunt raises (1) to 1dkpong83 folds.HockeyRulez calls (1)danh67 folds.kissMyAzS folds.TizLinda folds.rbing folds.shm08 folds.danh67: sorry about the rivermary_hope folds.bobbyd50 folds.** Dealing Flop ** :  [ 9h, Ah, Td ]  crumpentunt bets (0.5)HockeyRulez calls (0.5)** Dealing Turn ** :  [ 2d ]  crumpentunt checks.Why check here?  Bet this.HockeyRulez bets (1)crumpentunt calls (1)C/R is probably better.** Dealing River ** :  [ 9c ]  crumpentunt checks.Bet.HockeyRulez bets (1)crumpentunt raises (2) to 2I'm more likely to bet out here than to check-raise due to the 9's on the board, but check/raising here is probably a high % play.  I'd rather bet out and have to call a raise, than check/raise and get three-bet by a guy with 9-rag.Keep leading with your sets when there are draws on the board.  Giving a free card to a flush draw or a QJ is very dangerous.  With that board you are likely to get called down to the river anyway.On the end bet, you've only got one opponent and he may have a 9 to raise with, or a strong Ace may have a crack, or large cahones and no brains may to try a bluff with.  He will shut down for 2 bets if checkraised, but may actually cap it if you lead all the wayHockeyRulez calls (1)** Summary **Main Pot: $9.25 | Rake: $0.5Board: [ 9h Ah Td 2d 9c  ]Was maximum value extracted from this hand?  Lead on the turn perhaps?  Perhaps check/raise the turn?  Do i have to be overly concerned he's on a flush draw (heads up chances might be low), was checking the turn too risky?  Tips/thoughts/comments?Any insight whatsoever will be extremely helpful as  long as the logic and reasoning behind it is explained.  Thanks for reading.[/b]

As general advice you need to play a lot more aggresively. Play your strong and monster hands faster.Get more aggressive with your marginal holdings, but get out early if the rewards are not great.By being continually aggressive you will strengthen and thus win more of your marginal holdings and you will show down your mosnters for huge pots.