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Rules When Someone Is All In


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I run a fairly large poker league in NC and we've had some issues surrounding behavior when someone is all and multiple players have yet to act. Last week, i sent out this email to curtail the most obvious form of collusion: "If somebody is all in, and two players are contemplating a call, you can not say, “Let’s both call and we’ll just check it down.” When that happens, the pot is dead and everybody gets their chips back. If somebody is debating a call and you are behind them, don’t do anything to tip off what you are going to do. Apparently, somebody counted off the exact amount of chips for a call and left them out there signaling that he was going to call and check it down. Big mess. Just keep it in mind."A few hours later, that night, this situation came up. The button raised all in for 17K on 1-2K blinds and I was in the small blind with 22K and KQs and I sensed weakness in the overbet. The big blind asked immediately how much he had which really dwarfed my hand. But I pressed him anyway with questions about why he asked so quickly etc. and I determined that he had no interest in the hand. The button who was all in became very agitated saying that I was breaking my own rule. This really made me feel like he was weak. So I moved all-in to isolate but was wrong, the button had 10s. I got lucky and won the race. The button became very agitated and left unhappy as most argued what i did was ok. I argued that the spirit of the rule is that you can’t tip off the player with the intentions of checking it down. I had no intentions of checking it down. It was a matter of risking all my chips with KQ(which isn’t my style) and I wanted a sense of what the big held. I can’t see myself being handcuffed in that spot to not be able to probe the big blind. We determined that I did nothing wrong but we're still not sure. And i'm sure the button is still pissed. He left pretty annoyed.Thoughts?

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I run a fairly large poker league in NC and we've had some issues surrounding behavior when someone is all and multiple players have yet to act. Last week, i sent out this email to curtail the most obvious form of collusion: "If somebody is all in, and two players are contemplating a call, you can not say, "Let's both call and we'll just check it down." When that happens, the pot is dead and everybody gets their chips back. If somebody is debating a call and you are behind them, don't do anything to tip off what you are going to do. Apparently, somebody counted off the exact amount of chips for a call and left them out there signaling that he was going to call and check it down. Big mess. Just keep it in mind."A few hours later, that night, this situation came up. The button raised all in for 17K on 1-2K blinds and I was in the small blind with 22K and KQs and I sensed weakness in the overbet. The big blind asked immediately how much he had which really dwarfed my hand. But I pressed him anyway with questions about why he asked so quickly etc. and I determined that he had no interest in the hand. The button who was all in became very agitated saying that I was breaking my own rule. This really made me feel like he was weak. So I moved all-in to isolate but was wrong, the button had 10s. I got lucky and won the race. The button became very agitated and left unhappy as most argued what i did was ok. I argued that the spirit of the rule is that you can't tip off the player with the intentions of checking it down. I had no intentions of checking it down. It was a matter of risking all my chips with KQ(which isn't my style) and I wanted a sense of what the big held. I can't see myself being handcuffed in that spot to not be able to probe the big blind. We determined that I did nothing wrong but we're still not sure. And i'm sure the button is still pissed. He left pretty annoyed.Thoughts?
Well i dont see a problem from a RULES standpoint. Your rule never said you couldnt probe. But honestly, from an ethics standpoint, it is a little shady simply because you are the house man. Thats all.
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Well i dont see a problem from a RULES standpoint. Your rule never said you couldnt probe. But honestly, from an ethics standpoint, it is a little shady simply because you are the house man. Thats all.
Exactly.And the guy is going to be a little pissed either way geting knocked out of a tournament. Everybody is.
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Probably nothing wrong with it.I disagree with your problem with someone counting out the number of chips of the all in though. He isnt committed to that amount, and isnt any different than someone holding their cards like they are going to fold, or counting out a bigger stack. There is nothing implied about his intent to check it down either.

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