I believe Daniel was holding...

[Suited_Up 2]

i believe its impossible for daniel to have aa or kk here. he never pays off the river bet with just a pair up here. especially after johnny reraises the turn. gotta hand it to johnny for making daniel for a big hand here(considering how unpredictable he can be) in my mind its either dueces or a-3. but dueces is more likely.i vote for dueces as well

Maybe the fact he never normally pays off with those hands, is just the reason he was so upset with himself. Think about his thought process and what he would put Chan on. He couldn't have put him on any hand with a 3, because of his extra large raise pre-flop... He had to put him on something premium, Pair or high cards. As soon as he got the re-raise... you would probably figure Chan had a very high pair, but wouldn't have called pre-flop with an 8 or 3 (unless it was pocket 8's)... but even that seems unlikely, so he probably assumed he had KK or QQ and thought he was still ahead... and paid him off thinking he was still good with AA.

[eric1971 0]

If Daniel did have AA, I don’t think you can fault him for his play. He had to know the only hand that would beet him was 88. No way Chan had a 3. When Chan goes all-in, he has to think Chan has 88 or nothing. (The flip side of this is, Daniel has to be thinking, there is no way Chan knows he is holding AA.) With AA it is worth the call. If Chan has 88, so be it. Daniel would still have enough chips to work his way back up. If he wins the pot, Daniel has a huge stack.Because of this, I was having trouble understanding why he would not want Chan to know what his hole cards were. The only explanation I can think of is, like I said before, he did not want Chan to know he made such a large raise with AA. By raising so much, he is basically saying is respects Chan’s play so much; he doesn’t even want to be in a hand with him holding AA. (At this point in the tournament anyways.)

[GaryMorris 0]

Daniel does not mention the fact he flopped the nut flush draw and then hit his 8 on the turn. I was there and saw it all!

[Suited_Up 2]

Daniel does not mention the fact he flopped the nut flush draw and then hit his 8 on the turn. I was there and saw it all!

So what were the suits of all the rounds? Fill us in if you could.

[eric1971 0]

Daniel does not mention the fact he flopped the nut flush draw and then hit his 8 on the turn. I was there and saw it all!

So what were the suits of all the rounds? Fill us in if you could.

I'm assuming it was "Heart"s.

[bigedjr17 0]

Eric, valid point, but there's a difference between respect and fear. "By raising so much, he is basically saying is respects Chan’s play so much; he doesn’t even want to be in a hand with him holding AA."Daniel doesn't strike me as the being someone who fears anybody, even Johnny Chan. He may not have a good read on him, and that's why he doesn't want him in a big pot.This would also prove why he would call $98,000 on the river. Holding AA it's an easy lay down for someone of Daniel's skill level. (I, of course would call in a flash ) If he's holding AA why is 88 the only hand that Johnny could have that can beat him. Why wouldn't he put Johnny on 22 or 23? 22 more likely. Think about it, he was in the BB, and as I've read and watched previous pieces on Chan in the past he isn't exactly the tightest player. So assuming Daniel has AA, the betting pattern by Chan SCREAMS 22. He smooth calls the flop with a boat, re-raises the turn and moves in on the river. Either Daniel severely mis(over)played AA, or he had 22 or 23 himself, which is what I believe.Thoughts anyone?

[Mills 0]

if chan is reraising a raise, hes either got a 3 or filled up. but its possible daniel outsmarted himself here.he may have been thing that chan knows hes unpredictable, and so his reraise dosent necessarily merit that strong of a hand.something to think about

[Suited_Up 2]

You know, everyone makes valid arguments for pretty much every hand out there. It's hard to say one way or the other who is right. I guess I took the over-raise preflop as trying to make sure he had control if Chan called, and more likely trying to push him out unless he's got a big hand (which AA would have a better chance against). But I guess seeing Daniel's style of being so unpredictable, he may well raise more than normal with 22, but for some reason I can't figure out which one is more likely. The aspect of the flush draw is interesting too. I wish I knew the suits of the flop exactly, and also, which cards chan turned over. That would let you know if the A8 is right or not, because if chan had one of the flush draw cards with his 8's... Danny couldn't have the suited A8 with the draw. Also, it's unlikely to me that all those 8's were out...Chan having 2, Dan with 1 and one on the turn. (Although I got stuck the same way with Aces once).. so I know it happens (read my blog)... I'm just not sure now... was the raise to get control, or to scare out marginal hands... that's the question I think. Big raise with AA is to make sure he's up against something legit... or Big raise with 22 or 23, means he wants chan to think he's got something big. I should go back and read it again i think...

[GaryMorris 0]

Daniel does not mention the fact he flopped the nut flush draw and then hit his 8 on the turn. I was there and saw it all!

So what were the suits of all the rounds? Fill us in if you could.

Daniel has Ac8cJohnny has 8d8sFlop comes 2c3c3dTurn 8hRiver 9dDaniel Raised Preflop with his A suited with the 8 to try and steal the blinds. Since he had position of being on the button, that's a pretty good sized raise for a steal. Johnny just called.After the flop Daniel continues to lead the betting as Johnny checked his 8's. Johnny thought about raising after the flop, but hesitated as he thought that Daniel could possibly have a 3 or a higher pair.The Turn card hit and it's Johnny's lucky 8. Unfortunatly, this 8 was the KEY card in this hand. Now Daniel had top pair on the board with an A kicker as well as the nut flush draw. Johnny comes out betting 15k and Daniel raises it to 60k, then Johnny re-raises Daniel. Daniel is now thinking that Johnny either slowed played a 3, has 8's in his hand or even KK or AA.The River comes and it's a blank for Daniel as the 9 does nothing to help. Johnny goes ALL in. At this point, there is too much money in the pot for Daniel to muck and he calls. Daniel tossed his hand into the much at rapid speed and you should have seen the disgust on his face afterwards. He really had to get himself together after that hand. WOW!!

[Guest]

good story. Possibly even correct, but if you really know what his hand was than Chan would have known and Daniel would have put it in the story. Your read might be the best one posted, but you cannot possibly have seen his hand.

[GaryMorris 0]

You know, everyone makes valid arguments for pretty much every hand out there. It's hard to say one way or the other who is right. I guess I took the over-raise preflop as trying to make sure he had control if Chan called, and more likely trying to push him out unless he's got a big hand (which AA would have a better chance against). But I guess seeing Daniel's style of being so unpredictable, he may well raise more than normal with 22, but for some reason I can't figure out which one is more likely. The aspect of the flush draw is interesting too. I wish I knew the suits of the flop exactly, and also, which cards chan turned over. That would let you know if the A8 is right or not, because if chan had one of the flush draw cards with his 8's... Danny couldn't have the suited A8 with the draw. Also, it's unlikely to me that all those 8's were out...Chan having 2, Dan with 1 and one on the turn. (Although I got stuck the same way with Aces once).. so I know it happens (read my blog)... I'm just not sure now... was the raise to get control, or to scare out marginal hands... that's the question I think. Big raise with AA is to make sure he's up against something legit... or Big raise with 22 or 23, means he wants chan to think he's got something big. I should go back and read it again i think...

Now why do you think Daniel fails to mention the suits in his Blog? Awww.. .Now you're catching on

[eric1971 0]

Eric, valid point, but there's a difference between respect and fear. "By raising so much, he is basically saying is respects Chan’s play so much; he doesn’t even want to be in a hand with him holding AA."Daniel doesn't strike me as the being someone who fears anybody, even Johnny Chan. He may not have a good read on him, and that's why he doesn't want him in a big pot.This would also prove why he would call $98,000 on the river. Holding AA it's an easy lay down for someone of Daniel's skill level. (I, of course would call in a flash ) If he's holding AA why is 88 the only hand that Johnny could have that can beat him. Why wouldn't he put Johnny on 22 or 23? 22 more likely. Think about it, he was in the BB, and as I've read and watched previous pieces on Chan in the past he isn't exactly the tightest player. So assuming Daniel has AA, the betting pattern by Chan SCREAMS 22. He smooth calls the flop with a boat, re-raises the turn and moves in on the river. Either Daniel severely mis(over)played AA, or he had 22 or 23 himself, which is what I believe.Thoughts anyone?

I'm not saying he fears Chan, only that he does not want to get involved in any hand with him at this point in the tournament. Whether Chan would call with 22, I guess is debatable. The poster above claims he had A8 suited. Find that hard to believe unless he made his flush on the river.

[Guest]

One more comment about the story. If the 9 on the river was a club, it owuld make sense that Daniel called based on the pot. Otherwise he could have dropped the A8 very easilly especially if his analysis was like yours and he put him on 88, KK or AA. The flush would make the odds worth calling, but nothing else

[Suited_Up 2]

Man, this revalation makes it even more confusing. If you're sure of the suits of Chan's 8's... then it could be very possible. I can see the pot size bet on the flop after a check from chan with that hand, and I can also see the raise hitting his 8 with the Ace....the call is automatic because of the draw... but what did Chan have at the end to go all in with? Was it like half the pot or so? Then I can see the call even with that hand.. but I just hate putting so much at risk with nothing but a pair of 8's... I don't know if he'd do that normally... but I guess that explains the disgust. I'm just not sure.. but the more I think about it... I am not sure about the AA anymore.

[Suited_Up 2]

One more comment about the story. If the 9 on the river was a club, it owuld make sense that Daniel called based on the pot. Otherwise he could have dropped the A8 very easilly especially if his analysis was like yours and he put him on 88, KK or AA. The flush would make the odds worth calling, but nothing else

If he did call on the river with a 9c... he couldn't have put him on those hands though, cause he would have been beat with A8 no matter what. Ok, now i'm thinking too much and confusing myself... man, this is like the mystery of the year.

[eric1971 0]

... man, this is like the mystery of the year.

Maybe that is the exact reason Daniel did not tell what his hand was. Look at the discussion it has prompted!

[Suited_Up 2]

Who knows why... cause he's posted worse situations, and that's the big question... what could it be, that he doesn't want us to know about? P.S. Welcome to Page 2 (Long Discussion for being up a couple hours)

[bigedjr17 0]

I was just thinking the same thing. He's admitted to losing over $100,000 in one session!To be honest, I really have no idea why Daniel wouldn't say what he had.

[Suited_Up 2]

I was just thinking the same thing. He's admitted to losing over $100,000 in one session!To be honest, I really have no idea why Daniel wouldn't say what he had.

7-3o? That's pretty bad, but he just admitted to playing that hand, so I don't see why he wouldn't post unless it's just because of his post-flop play.

[foodbanker 0]

Johnny doesn't know what Daniel had.Daniel seems to be pretty sure he is the only one who knows what he had.He stated he mucked his hand.Unless you were the one controling the monkey cam on the table how do you know? Did you pick up the cards to show the gallery while he played?I'm not argueing that he did not have A-8 suited. For A-8 suited is definitley a strong possiblility. But i'm still questioning if the person who posted on what Daniel had is really posting on first hand knowledge or just posting a message to get some attention.

[LONEWOLF 0]

daniel can enlighten us as to what hand he held. I would love to have him respond to this thread with his holding and why he did what he did. L*

[theKAbag 0]

I'm not argueing that he did not have A-8 suited. For A-8 suited is definitley a strong possiblility. But i'm still questioning if the person who posted on what Daniel had is really posting on first hand knowledge or just posting a message to get some attention.

i'm guessin he WAS there, but how would anyone knoe anyones hole cards unless it went to showdown? of course that guy doesnt know what the heck he's talking about

[LONEWOLF 0]

that guy saw daniel's hand. I still stand pat to my AA claim. It might be one of those never ending mysteries.L*

[l337O 0]

It's possible somebody could have seen his hand.In the TOC and WSOP episodes, when Daniel is unsure of a call, and goes to muck, he sometimes picks up his cards and looks at them before throwing away. It's very possible a spectator standing behind him (which I'm assuming this guy was) could have caught a slight peek.With all the discussion this one hand has created, it might be a nice idea if once a week (2/3/4 weeks), Daniel could post a big hand he has layed down before in a tournament, so we can try and figure out what he had. I've enjoyed reading people's interpretations (especially Lonewolfs ) and wouldn't mind discussion other hands. I understand how busy he is, but just a thought it might be a decent idea 8) When I originally read the journal, I immediately thought of A3 or 22. I'm just happy he managed to regain memento and start the final table with a great and commanding lead. GL!- Mark

[SexyStudThang 0]

This is the first time in Daniel's long career that he's written about a hand and refused to explain what that hand was...This to me seems like a hand that he considered integral enough to write about to explain a situation, but a hand which eh did not want to take flack for his play in this spot. I think with Aces, KK, or any hand like 32 that hit that flop he would have been happy to explain what his hand was and why he made the call, and everyone would udnerstand and not label it a bad play...but Im pretty sure the hand was..........AK High. He simply decided that Chan was making a move on him, and he wanted to show some "Superiority" and get into Chan's head by picking off his bluff with AK high rather than raising him off of it. This is a hard play to justify, and he was obviously wrong so rather than explain that to everyone and have this thread read "DANIEL MAKES A BLUNDER WITH AK HIGH" It might not have been ace king, but I dont believe it was a pair or a set, rather just high cards that he thought were winning. I dont think it was necessary to post the hand and say "Not telling" he could have just said "I lost a key hand to Chan making 8s full on the turn" and we'd have been happy with the explanation, but this is what the hand is.