marginal hands in early position

[Binary 0]

NLHE question:How do you guys feel about playing marginal hands in an early position of a full table? By marginal, I'm thinking about decent hands like K7 suited, QJ suited, A-rag, and the like. I know the answers will vary widely on the type of game (cash, early tourney, late tourney, etc). My experience is limited to friendly home games. While the people I played against weren't bad, the lack of stakes tends to make people play a lot looser. I'm visiting a casino in a week, and would like to play hold'em there. While I anticipate a fun and costly learning experience, I'd like to minimize horrific newbie mistakes. :wink:

[Vade 0]

K7 suited is an easy fold for me.QJ suited is usually worth a limp imo.A-rag is an easy fold unless it's sooooooted.

[Binary 0]

I guess my examples were poorly conceived if there is such a range :oops: What sort of general guideline would people suggest for "playable hands" from an early position? (Not taking into account any idiosyncratic aspects of the specific table)

[Smasharoo 0]

QJs isn't marginal.I'll limp with JQs utg in lots of games.kxs is junk unless you're on the button there are lots of limpers to you.Axs is more situational, but I'll limp with A2s UTG in most games.A9o is a fold on the button unless I'm first in, in which case it's an easy raise.

[Guest XXEddie]

If you have a marginal hand in EP....you should really just fold things like QJs, low aces, just fold

[wrto4556 0]

If you have a marginal hand in EP....you should really just fold things like QJs, low aces, just fold

Not in juicy games. And KJs is a limp in tough games....or a raise.

[Erudis 0]

(for the following i consider early position to be under the gun and 2 off the BB, 3 off the BB i consider early as well 10 or 11 handed)ah NL hold-em cash games... my specialty. in early position you need to be extremely careful. this isn't limit. your axx is on the line any hand you decide to play in. the moves you are capable of making from EP are limited. if you are allowed (ALLOWED by players behind you) to hit your draw you're not going to get paid off the same as if you were in late. if you flop the nuts you're not going to get paid off the same as if you were in late. if the guy to your immediate left has KK or AA and wants to play the limp raise, you quite honestly might end up either calling raises you never wanted to call, or more often than not, you're just going to make a pot donation without ever seeing the flop. marginal hands are so dangerous in early position in NL hold-em... I can't emphasize that enough. Here is my list of most dangerous marginal hands from early position and you will most often just want to fold these outright or limp to see a cheap flop and fold to ANY raise (folding is preferable; this list is all to be considered offsuit):AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, KT, QJ, QT, JT. (AQ under the gun could easily be added to this list)These are the marginal ones, anything worse are rags in your position.Now, suppose the flop comes with the high card pairing any card you have, here's what's most likely going to happen:1. You're going to lose some cash because:1a your hand is suspect and you know it, someone behind you figures that out, and makes you fold the best hand1b you get yourself trapped by a better hand in better position2. You win a very small pot which in NL holdem is about the equivalent of just folding pre-flop.AJ with a J-high flop and AT with a T-high flop aren't quite as bad because oftentimes you will have the best hand versus someone else with some sort of draw. But again, if the draw hits and he's in position, you're probably going to lose more money than it's worth.To be honest, the real reason to sometimes play marginal hands in early position is just to mix things up. In the long-run you're not going to make a whole lot of money in that position with those hands and any time you play them in NL in early position you're flirting with disaster.Better hands to play with in early position are the following (this supposes that you are a good post-flop NL player):1. the above list if they're suited (you're looking for straights, flushes, 2 pair, boats, etc; with these hands you HAVE to know what you're looking for and what you're NOT looking for ie top pair. if you flop top pair you bet, you fold to a raise unless you have a good enough read telling you he's only drawing)2. pairs 22-TT. (JJ and QQ are special cases; KK-AA are not marginal) (what you are looking for is someone behind you to raise preflop with AK, AQ, or a bigger pair and you call this raise, you want to flop a set or an overpair and lead into the raiser with it (anything less you don't stick around for). this is a classic double-up play)3. medium and small suited connectors (again, you're looking for someone behind you to raise preflop, you call, and if you hit you lead into the raiser)The reason these hands are much better is because you know exactly what you're looking for. The first group is still suspect and dangerous and your draws aren't typically going to be paid off very well. Much much better are group 2 (the pocket pairs) and group 3 (the suited connectors) as these are the hands you will typically be holding when you bust your opponent.Finally, there is no real formula for this stuff. I've raised 4x big blind with KTo in early position... hell I've done it all. But the most important thing with marginal hands in early is that you absolutely have to know what you are looking for and be willing to fold anything less, or be willing to outplay your opponent in a high-risk situation with sometimes savvy and sometimes powerful moves.

[TINXDAD 0]

K7s or not Yuck!!QJ I might even play w/ a late position raise.AX o/s not horrible. Situational.AX s come in for a raise to represent. One of the time early position will work for you. Call 2 bets. Never 3 bet.Position is very valuable.Home games are tough. Lots of Police.