I Need Help With 2 Things (semi-long)

[lenmccart 0]

Well...actually I need help with way more than 2 things...but we'll stick with these two for now.I while back I was asking ya'll for a bunch of basic poker advice and it helped. I couldn't play for about 4 months, but then this April I started again. Party Poker gave me $20 to play with so I used that to try to build up. Luckilly for me, I haven't had to re-deposit yet...so that's good.Anyway...I play $25 NL on party and I win way more sessions than I lose. I have built up to $300, which I am pretty excited about. (I know you people have pots that are more than that...but I'm not there yet!) I use pokertracker to track my play...although I haven't yet figured out how to use it to help fix my game. I just passed 6000 hands, which is probably an acceptable sample size. But that's a different question for a later day.My two questions are:1. How do you get past the dollar amount when you attempt to move up in levels? I stepped up to $50 NL a couple times and I immediately start losing. I know the difficulty level is the same as $25 NL, a bunch of bad palyers (including myself). What I can't seem to get past is the amount that is being bet as standard bets. I am used to, and comfortable with, the pot sizes in $25, but these are bigger and it makes me wary. I found I was playing far more passively, but I couldn't help it. 2. How can I teach myself to fold losing hands? I know one of the leaks in my game is that I have a hard time laying down good hands when I know they are beat. For instance...the other day, I had a K high flush (4 on the board) and raised 3/4 pot...I got then got reraised by someone who was just calling me throughout the hand. His raise was gigantic...way more than the size of the pot. I KNEW he had the Ace. It seemed really obvious to me. I even said it out loud. Yet I still called. Sure enough he had the Ace and I doubled him up. It's maddening because he didn't outplay me...I was just stupid.Anyway...any advice ya'll can give me on these would be great. Then after that we can get into poker tracker details if you don't mind.I really love reading the strat topics, and my game has improved since I started doing it.Thanks everyone,AFW

[Royal_Tour 0]

Hey brotherGood post. you sound like my old roomate who i taught how to play1st - dollar amount is the Key, when moving up from 25 to 50. or 50 - 100 u realy need the Bankroll more than anything, if you have success and build a roll large enough for the next level, well that pretty much says you're beating the game etc etc..2nd - How to fold., well a lot of strategy and good playing is folding, this comes from experience, and knowing how to spot situations online or live where you're almost certain you are beat.You cant tell someone when they should fold except for basics like folding junk in EP., and more junk in MP etc...my only advice besides this is realise there are good and bad players, and practice and learn how to spot which are which, so you know who to fold too, and who to raise.good luck

[lenmccart 0]

Royal (or anyone else)...I know having a proper bankroll is important so I try to keep enough in my account to not worry about anything. My qusetion is more about the psycholgical aspect of having to bet or call a higher amount of money to play the game. I find myself calling instead of raising because I am concered about losing too much. I don't have this problem in $25 NL. What do you do to combat that.I suppose the 2nd qusetion is more psychological too. I KNOW when I am beat...what can I tell myself to just lay it down even though I have a good hand. Knowing how to do this will earn me a lot more than I have now.Thanks

[godoffrisbee 0]

Number 1. I find that when moving up in online poker, it is always a good idea to overcompensate by at least 20%. If you're playing $25 NL, a decent bankroll would be $500. However, I would make sure that i had at least $600-700. Kind of like saying better safe than sorry. Number 2. Even though Steve Dannenman is not exactly my beacon for poker advice, he did give some good advice to everyone watching the WSOP on ESPN. He said "folding is only a small mistake", and he's absolutely right. Even if you fold the winner sometimes, it's still much more profitable in the long run to accept a small loss now knowing that more times that not, you'll have much stronger hands when the money goes in that you're not-as-experienced fellow players.

[Actuary 3]

Playing Scared = Playing UnderRolledWhat's underRolled?Well, in this case: Having unsuffucient BankRoll to make the optimal play.**********to your 2nd point.I would have been a huge winner the 1st time around in NL online had the rule stated: "Villan must show his hand even if I don't call his bet" I paid way too much to "see I was beat" As far as detecting bluffs and all... well from lower level players we don't need to worry about game theory discussions..I would just look at Pot to Bet ratios and make good judgements.

[aim786 0]

I can't answer your 2nd point as I don't play NL and thus am not used to make those big laydowns. As for your first point, if you have the roll to play the limit your playing at, I think you just have to give it time. When I moved up to 2/4 LHE, I could'nt handle the pot sizes. I'd chase in pots w/o the odds and just do other really stupid things that I would'nt do before. I think they call it poker tuition, the price you pay when you move up in limits, whether that is adjusting to a tougher game or getting past your own mental block. 5k hands later at 2/4, the money doesn't phase me anymore, so just give it time and I think you'll be ok!

[Royal_Tour 0]

Royal (or anyone else)...I know having a proper bankroll is important so I try to keep enough in my account to not worry about anything. My qusetion is more about the psycholgical aspect of having to bet or call a higher amount of money to play the game. I find myself calling instead of raising because I am concered about losing too much. I don't have this problem in $25 NL. What do you do to combat that.I suppose the 2nd qusetion is more psychological too. I KNOW when I am beat...what can I tell myself to just lay it down even though I have a good hand. Knowing how to do this will earn me a lot more than I have now.Thanks

Hey, The thing about your 1st question, "going up" or making those big bets, is honestly time.Time: meaning, playing more, seeing more, and winning more is the only thing you can do to get over this.My 1st time online i deposited 80 bucks, i lost that 80 bucks in a week. I then re-deposited 100.00, i took my time with and dropped my limits, I then got that 100 up to 130.00 and i was so excited, and so proud that I made 30 bucks, (even though i lost 80 before)I kept playing and kept goin up and down up and down, during that time i was confident in my play at the levels, and felt ok to push 5 dollars preflop.Yes. I laugh now, thinking back that 5 dollars had that much value to my poker account.2 months ago i lost 600.00 in a day. I would have puked if i lost that kind of money when i first started. But u become desensitized to the money, you become accustom to handling large sums on draws or gambles.Trust me, there is nothing you can do to tell yourself how to feel comfortable, except to actually be playing, and do it.2nd. Folding, like i stated before, really not much you can tell yourself except, "There will be other opportunities" "AA is supposed to happens once in every 220 hands""When in doubt, if you dont know if he has you beat or not, but you're pretty sure he does but there is a chance he is just making a move, remember, they are out to make money just like you. and more often than not, your opponents are more scared of losing money than you are, so would they risk losing money on a bluff, if they suspect, even the slightest possibilty that u might call.Hope that helps.keep askin, dont be shycheers

[iggymcfly 0]

Number 2. Even though Steve Dannenman is not exactly my beacon for poker advice, he did give some good advice to everyone watching the WSOP on ESPN. He said "folding is only a small mistake", and he's absolutely right. Even if you fold the winner sometimes, it's still much more profitable in the long run to accept a small loss now knowing that more times that not, you'll have much stronger hands when the money goes in that you're not-as-experienced fellow players.

This may be true in a tournament, but actually the opposite is true in a cash game. The money you'll lose when you fold a winner is going to be more than the money you save by not calling a bet when you're beat. This isn't to say that you shouldn't make laydowns when you know you're beat; it's just that if you really think it's close to 50/50 whether you're ahead, you have to call.To the OP, making big laydowns takes time, but the best advice I can give you is to trust your reads. A lot of times, you can pick up patterns that you're not even aware of and know that you're beaten or know that you're opponent's bluffing, even with minimal evidence. One more thing, though, don't forget about pot odds. You might think that the villian wouldn't bet less than half the pot on a river bluff, but if you're ahead even one time in four there, it's worth a call. Practice thinking, "what % of the time am I ahead here" and "what % of the time do I need to be ahead to make this call".As far as emotionally being able to deal with higher amounts of money, I can't really help you there at all. I'm such a gambler at heart that that kind of thinking doesn't apply to me. I don't even think I'm capable of playing scared. I could have half my BR on the table, and I'll still be calling the flop with trash if I think I have a good spot for a setup bluff, and then I'll bet a third of my stack on the river to get them off the hand.

[swahnroger 0]

If you are playing scared, then your bankroll is simply too small for your mind set. If you don't wanna step down in limits all the way, maybe you can play both your old limit and your new limit... Getting used to the higher amounts bit by bit.

[mrgibb 0]

Hey, The thing about your 1st question, "going up" or making those big bets, is honestly time.Time: meaning, playing more, seeing more, and winning more is the only thing you can do to get over this.My 1st time online i deposited 80 bucks, i lost that 80 bucks in a week. I then re-deposited 100.00, i took my time with and dropped my limits, I then got that 100 up to 130.00 and i was so excited, and so proud that I made 30 bucks, (even though i lost 80 before)I kept playing and kept goin up and down up and down, during that time i was confident in my play at the levels, and felt ok to push 5 dollars preflop.Yes. I laugh now, thinking back that 5 dollars had that much value to my poker account.2 months ago i lost 600.00 in a day. I would have puked if i lost that kind of money when i first started. But u become desensitized to the money, you become accustom to handling large sums on draws or gambles.Trust me, there is nothing you can do to tell yourself how to feel comfortable, except to actually be playing, and do it.2nd. Folding, like i stated before, really not much you can tell yourself except, "There will be other opportunities" "AA is supposed to happens once in every 220 hands""When in doubt, if you dont know if he has you beat or not, but you're pretty sure he does but there is a chance he is just making a move, remember, they are out to make money just like you. and more often than not, your opponents are more scared of losing money than you are, so would they risk losing money on a bluff, if they suspect, even the slightest possibilty that u might call.Hope that helps.keep askin, dont be shycheers

I agree with Royal on this one, some hands will look really sexy preflop but you just have to know that you will miss them with them. Expirenece will teach you on what to fold. On moving up, My first move up was on FullTilt after i won a little over 1K in a MTT. I went from 2/4 limit to 4/8 and im' still playing 4/8. I honestly feel that if you can handle the swings at a high level, then you can play there as long as you have the bankroll for it.

[Donkey 0]

hey man, i know exactly how you feel. Let me start with the 2nd question first. Obviously, there is a difference between online poker and live poker. There are simply more bad players making BAD plays online. The unfortunate result i have found is that you simply have to pay off people on the river in alot of situations. Many times i have been worried that my trips were rivered by a flush. Checked a 10 dollar pot, guy goes all in for 8 bucks, only to have some lousy top pair ok kicker. for every story like that there is also a story where he had the flush. With 8 dollars to call 18 in that situation you gotta call (assuming you notice a 50/50 pattern of win/loss).Secondly I like to have at least 20 times the buyin for no limit and ideally 10 times for limit, though 5 isnt so bad due to the lack of swings. Another good idea is to keep track of your profit per hour in which games.So, as you can guess from the earlier example i am playing 5c/10c and occasionally 10/25 nl and 25/50 and 50/1 limit. I started playing 1/2c no limit and 5/10c limit and built it up accordingly. The point is to build it up in a level you are completely comfortable playing in. Moving up gradually cant hurt in developing the skills and understanding the moves and playing styles you encounter at each level. As it stands i am due to make it up to always playing the 2/4 limit and 50/1 nl by the end of summer and my lazy *** will quit my job and sit on my recliner and make an average of 15/hr (i make much more per hour proportionally now, but i realize skill level increases) on 2 tables at a time. SWEET

[WhiskyRiver 0]

In regards to laying down hands:One of the big things I had to get over (and the thing that has honestly been one of the keys to my game) is calling because I hated thinking that I was getting bluffed at. It sounds simple, and it probably isn't your issue, but I was calling so many times because I just didn't want to let them get away with anything. If someone bets the minimum on the flop, smooth calls your raise, repeats on the turn, and then bets out the pot when a flush card hits, you're beat. I guess what it really comes down to is reading hands. The people who play like that in my home game are the best. All it takes is showing down a bluff one time, and they'll pay you off every single time after that.