ak hand, how do we proceed?

[bdams19 0]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Crispy Lanetta is BB with K:diamond:, A:club:. MP1 posts a blind of $1. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.Flop: (15 SB) 4:club:, 6:diamond:, 6:spade: (5 players)SB checks, Crispy Lanetta bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls, SB calls.Turn: (9.50 BB) K:heart: (4 players)SB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, SB calls.River: (13.50 BB) 7:club: (2 players)SB bets, Crispy Lanetta calls.Final Pot: 15.50 BB

[Sysvr4 0]

I like it. What's the question?Jeff

[bdams19 0]

Just an interesting hand I thought, not really sure how to deal with. Does everyone like raising the SB here on the turn?

[Guest Zach6668]

I hate donk bets. They actually drive me completely crazy.Anyways, I LOVE the turn raise.I may seriously consider raising the river as well, depending on my reads of the villian. I think most people will 3-bet the turn with a 6 here. Odds are he has KQ or something retarded like K8. He may have K7, but I think we are ahead more than enough for a raise.Does anyone agree? Or am I being too aggressive and spewing here?ZachNote - In practice, I probably just call.

[Tparks86 0]

Let me precede my post by saying that I've never played 1/2 on party.I've heard it's the hardest micro limit to beat.I like the line the whole way through. Turn raise is very good.I think I'd agree with Zach and say that a raise on the river would be good.It just doesn't make sense why he would not three bet with a 6 and then weak lead. However, maybe that kind of stuff happens at lot in this game.

[Guest Zach6668]

Let me precede my post by saying that I've never played 1/2 on party.I've heard it's the hardest micro limit to beat.I like the line the whole way through. Turn raise is very good.I think I'd agree with Zach and say that a raise on the river would be good.It just doesn't make sense why he would not three bet with a 6 and then weak lead. However, maybe that kind of stuff happens at lot in this game.

I agree with this. I've actually lost money at 1/2 on Party (-$30), so what do I know. Lol.Zach

[bdams19 0]

my thoughts: With the pot so big, we have to bet this flop to see where we are at and since we 3 bet I think we have some fold equity here (albeit not much). It's a fairly harmless board where pocket pairs will raise us and we can call down to improve. Turn comes money card (so we think), except the SB bets out. To me this says Kx or 6x. So I raised, and he called. Now I figure I'm ahead.River hits x, and sb bets out again. Now I'm suspicious and decide to just call here. I don't understand why he would do this with 6x or Kx, so without any real information I'm going to a showdown.

[screech 0]

What about a turn call? What if the flop was 662 instead of 664?

[Guest Zach6668]

What about a turn call? What if the flop was 662 instead of 664?

How much of a difference would that actually make?My guess is he called the flop with overcards, and hit his K. I'm raising this turn all day.

[reverbse 0]

What if the flop was 662 instead of 664?

time for an open-farrell

[screech 0]

How much of a difference would that actually make?

What hands do we have to protect against?

[MrNiceGuy 0]

What about a turn call? What if the flop was 662 instead of 664?

I was thinking about that - I think raising is better though.Anybody whose not already beating us probably has at most 4 outs to beat us (except: A4 has 5 outs, and 35 or 57 have 8). I doubt anybody who's drawing dead will continue after that K hits (except for K5/K2/K3, who might call 2 cold anyway). If we induce overcalls by calling, we make only a slight profit from those calling with 2 and 3 outers, and we break about even against 4-outers that call. By raising, we make a good profit from anyone who calls, and we don't lose much by shutting out slim draws.Of course, if we're up against a 6 or 44, raising costs us money. But a K seems like a far more likely hand for SB, given his failure to raise the flop.

[screech 0]

A4 has 5 outs

Just to be picky, what are they?BTW, I think that this is a raise on the 664 board. Just wanted to get people thinking.I think calling is better on the 662 board with the intention of raising the the river.

[Guest Zach6668]

How much of a difference would that actually make?

What hands do we have to protect against?

You lost me. Care to explain?

[Guest Zach6668]

A4 has 5 outs

Just to be picky, what are they?BTW, I think that this is a raise on the 664 board. Just wanted to get people thinking.I think calling is better on the 662 board with the intention of raising the the river.

Obviously by the turn, A4 only has two outs... the remaining 4s.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

A4 has 5 outs

Just to be picky, what are they?

-Oops, forgot we had that A in our hand (that's what I get for trying to be thorough) :oops:

BTW, I think that this is a raise on the 664 board. Just wanted to get people thinking.I think calling is better on the 662 board with the intention of raising the the river.

If we get more than one overcaller on the turn, would going for overcalls again on a blank river be better than raising (assuming SB bets out again)?

[reverbse 0]

A4 has 5 outs

Just to be picky, what are they?BTW, I think that this is a raise on the 664 board. Just wanted to get people thinking.I think calling is better on the 662 board with the intention of raising the the river.

i actually thought you were joking in your first post. umm, i´m with Zach, care to explain?

[benhoug 0]

Maybe it's just me, but I sorta hate 3-betting w/ AK out of position. If I'm in position I'll 3-bet or cap with it all day, but if it's raised to me in the blinds I prefer to just take a flop, and disguise the strength of my hand (if I happen to hit the flop).

[reverbse 0]

BTW, I think that this is a raise on the 664 board.  Just wanted to get people thinking.I think calling is better on the 662 board with the intention of raising the the river.

If we get more than one overcaller on the turn, would going for overcalls again on a blank river be better than raising (assuming SB bets out again)?

isn´t it too likely that they were calling with overcards and will fold now to go for overcalls? sb probably won´t fold.if we only call the turn, do we fold to a raise?regarding you question: i think that if they actually both call after us on the turn we should go for overcalls on the river again, since their most probable holdings are pps or a king, that might call 2 cold on the turn but most likely not on the river.

[Guest Zach6668]

Maybe it's just me, but I sorta hate 3-betting w/ AK out of position.  If I'm in position I'll 3-bet or cap with it all day, but if it's raised to me in the blinds I prefer to just take a flop, and disguise the strength of my hand (if I happen to hit the flop).

But you are raising for equity here, against a normal range of raising hands, you fare very well. That is why we 3-bet. I'll 3-bet/cap this hand all day Oop.

[screech 0]

You lost me. Care to explain?

If SB bets, and we call, we will offer between 11.5:1 and 13.5:1 to our opponents behind us. What could they possibly have that is drawing live against us if we're ahead? Since UTG raised, it is very unlikely that even poor players will call pf with hands that could make a gutshot (43, 53, 54). So the only hands that realistically have outs against us are 2x hands or pp's, which only have 2 outs against us. When they call, we profit. The only hand that realistically has odds to call are Kx hands, where x >6. They only have 3 outs, and are about break-even to call.By calling, we may induce calls from our opponents that are either drawing slim, or dead (Ax hand). So we profit.This still doesn't mean we should automatically call. It's just that we don't have much to protect against. If our opponents will call 2 with pp type hands, than by all means, we should raise. But this happens rarely.

If we get more than one overcaller on the turn, would going for overcalls again on a blank river be better than raising (assuming SB bets out again)?

I'd rather raise. Our opponent behind us may fold if we call and call if we raise. SB is almost always calling, so we only lose money when he has 6x, which I think is not that often.

[bdams19 0]

Except in this case when he shows down T6o and I scratch my head in bewilderment. Sorry to be the results guy.

[Smasharoo 0]

Turn raise sucks with two to act behind us.If we're ahead, we make way more money from overcalls on this turn. We're not protecging aginast anything realy with the raise, and we're better off with overcals from weaker kings not to menthion we have absoltely no idea where we are if someone after us decides to three-bet.The raise isn't for value here, and almost never improves our equity situation much. Showing the hand down for two more bets in a much bigger pot is vastly better than paying more to show it down in a smaller pot.good luck.