kk ina big pot

[aim786 0]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is MP3 with K:spade:, K:club:. 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.Flop: (15.50 SB) 5:diamond:, T:diamond:, 3:spade: (5 players)BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.Turn: (9.75 BB) Q:club: (4 players)BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.River: (13.75 BB) 3:heart: (4 players)BB bets, Hero calls, BB calls.Final Pot: 19.75 BBI'm trying to fix a leak in my game, which would be protecting my big hands in big pots. SSHE has a similar hand to this in the protecting your hand section, and my question is whether I should have bet (for value) on the flop? I can't really protect my hand on the flop, so am I supposed to check the flop hoping to check raise on the turn?(comments on anything else are also appreciated)

[Emptyeye 0]

I'm betting the flop every single time. Most people at micro-limit are completely unaware of the pot odds concept, and thus will call at any point, whether or not it's correct. In short, I want to jam the pot while I'm ahead.

[aim786 0]

I'm betting the flop every single time. Most people at micro-limit are completely unaware of the pot odds concept, and thus will call at any point, whether or not it's correct. In short, I want to jam the pot while I'm ahead.

I think your missing the point here. Even if most players will call at these limits regardless of the odds, its my job to make sure they don't get those odds, otherwise it is MYSELF that is making the mistake (this is exactly what the SSHE hand talks about).Also, I probably do have the best hand on the flop, but with 4 players with me all the way till the end, I don't think I'll have the best hand more than 60% of the time at the river.

[lifelessimp 0]

Also, I probably do have the best hand on the flop, but with 4 players with me all the way till the end, I don't think I'll have the best hand more than 60% of the time at the river.

I could be totally wrong, but I was under the impression that you should bet as long as you win more often than 1/5 of the time, which I am pretty sure you do.

[Actuary 3]

checkng the flop would be a huge mistakeHuge.Huge.River call is my question: getting 8.5 :1...with BB left to act again... Well, I probably make call. I think folding is a Pro Fold, and correct here..but I can't..so am I incorect?Being wrong is only 2 BB here...maybe 4... in which case I would fold.Any reads? Passivish Mp2 and I fold here.** read replies ***uh..aim..you are way off dude/what odds do you give when you don't bet?Can you say infinite?Just because you cant bet $10 at once, doesnt mean you let them play for free. You cant wait for turn because you have no idea where/if a bet is coming from. Waiting till turn works with an Agg to your right who will lead into you almost always, and you can face the field with two cold. But you still would have had $$$ go in in the flop in that scenario. Stop worrying about winnig more pots, and worry about winnig more money, total. This flop is an easy bet.

[aim786 0]

Lol actuary, thanks for beating some sense into me. I reread SSHE, and I remember there is a hand where you have KK and get beat by a gutshot on the river (protecting your hand section I believe).I know this should be an easy bet on the flop, and I think I would probably bet the flop everytime. So, i'll ask you another question, when do I play this the way they play it in SSHE?

[Actuary 3]

well....You'd want someone who will bet into you on the turn, in order to face field with two bets. If the KK were JJ you'd be more vulnerable to overcards and could wait for a safe turn. The flush draw makes it lean towards wiaitng fore the turn to raise.. but not in this hand becasue....the main issue: You have no one else betting. So you will never get a chance, likley, to face the field with 2 cold, or delay till the turn for a dble bet on a safe board.It's just a case of loose games here, and you won't win this hand >50%.... but you will win it often enough to bet the flop.so.If you had JJ and Mp2 bets into you on flop...Just calling here, and waitng for a safe Turn to Raise could be argued.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Haven't read replies...IMO, this is more similar to the AA hand in the SSHE example than it is to the TT hand. In which case you should bet the flop, because you have big edge. It looks like you probably got drawn out on, with MP2's river raise, but IMO you played the hand fine. I wouldn't have done anything differently.*read replies*You all should listen to Actuary, he's a smart man. I think that what the OP is referring to is the Two Overcard Hands section of SSHE, but I could be wrong. However, if i recall correctly in that situation we're talking about whether or not we should raise a bet from our right. In this case, no one else is betting, so we have to at least avoid giving free cards.As far as the river is concerned, online with no reads I puke a little and call the raise. With a good read, I may be able to fold. If it's live and I have a solid read I will definitely fold, but I've been known to be wrong when I fold, so I don't know if it's that great of an idea. Bottom line, I think you have to make the crying call here.

[aim786 0]

Haven't read replies...IMO, this is more similar to the AA hand in the SSHE example than it is to the TT hand. In which case you should bet the flop, because you have big edge.

Actually thats a different hand, the one I was referring to is on pg 163, the first hand in the when the pot is extremely large section (KK vs J7).

[Actuary 3]

Haven't read replies...IMO, this is more similar to the AA hand in the SSHE example than it is to the TT hand. In which case you should bet the flop, because you have big edge.

Actually thats a different hand, the one I was referring to is on pg 163, the first hand in the when the pot is extremely large section (KK vs J7).

even though, I too, looked at the wrong section, you see the points aree still valid? No one to yuor right is betting. You will likely never be able to face the field with two cold here.A case of knowing enough to be dangerous. 8)

[screech 0]

Super easy call on the river. Well played from start to finish.

[Actuary 3]

Super easy call on the river. Well played from start to finish.

you expect to win this 9.5 : 1 times overcalling 2 players that woke up when the 2nd 3 hits?If we just made a better two pair, I would think we would have heard from them earlier.Like I said, I call too, just need convincing it's not too fishy here. :-)