hawsdog 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 O.K., so this is a small time $50 NL (0.25/0.50 blinds) table question, but I'm interested in hearing your opinions. I'm dealt 1010 on the button. player in 7th position raises $3 pre-flop. I call and BB calls. Flop 9d, 7d, 3c. BB checks, player bets $6. what do you do? Link to post Share on other sites
Vegas King 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 You go all in. Make the flush pay to draw out on you. Link to post Share on other sites
justblaze 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 huh? flush draw? thats about the last thing id put him on after opening to 6xbb. hes obviously looking to thin the field with that preflop bet, so the only flush draw ive got him on is AK but likely a bigger pp than 10s. either way youre behind. all in here would not want a call as anything he calls u with is likely ahead. assuming you dont have the 10 , his flush draw and two overs are ahead 54:46. you are much worse if hes got what i suspect, a bigger pair. Link to post Share on other sites
mreevit 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 In those stakes, a bb will call with almost anything, but this can be a scary flop for you in some ways. First the BB, may have 33 or 77. He might be slowplaying, which is usually a mistake with two suited cards on the board. As for the pre-flop raiser, he might just be doing the usual bet before the flop bet after the flop. What I would do here is raise him, maybe to 12, as that would be enought to drive him out if he was bluffing. If he calls you know he has at least two high suited cards or maybe even a big pair jike JJ or QQ, which would seem more likely. (He too might be scared of small cards). Then, in the rare even that the BB had caught a set he would certainly let you know. If the BB quick calls then you can pretty much be sure of him having some sort of AXs or KXs. Usually I would guess he had AKo, AQo, or something to that effect, a rereaise after the flop should usually take care of it. If he had a big pair he would surely reraise you to protect his hand. So the correct play in my mind would be to raise the total bet to at least $12 maybe $15. Link to post Share on other sites
ErikM 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Assuming I had no reads on my opponents, in other words, it's early in the game and they are complete strangers...I would, for what it's worth, Raise to $12.00. If the BB called I would put him on a draw... If the original raiser called or re-raised I would shut down immediately. At that point I would assume he had a better pair than me. The raise would hopefully chase out the BB assuming he had some garbage, and define the original raisers hand. He prob should fold AK or AQ. Likley flat call with JJ-QQ. and prob push inwith KK or AA.But again... ppl do crazy things with crazy cards, so it's alway tough to say what you should do if you don't have any idea of what kind of player your up against.For example... a real loose agressive player could make that pre flop raise with 33 or T9 suited. Link to post Share on other sites
hawsdog 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 ...I would have taken down a nice pot. Instead I folded and BB called. the turn cam a 6c. Check Check. River Qs. check check. BB wins with a pair of sixes, show 56o. Raiser show AKs. LOL Link to post Share on other sites
FromTheRail 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 First, I would have reraised pre-flop instead of hiding the strength of my hand. However, the fact you flat called is not "that" bad. The flop was excellent for your hand, so you had to make a play at the pot at this point without allowing the other two involved with the hand to redraw. I think a slight over bet of around 18-20$ would have been correct. If the original raiser reraised or called the bet you would then have to give him credit for a real hand. Link to post Share on other sites
ErikM 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I don't know if I necessarily agree... because with AK suited... most ppl are going to take a look at the flop even in the face of a raise.Then... the AK would likely check to you and you would be worried about a potential check-raise trap if you thought his call meant he had a big pair.If you checked behind him then he is going to put a big bet in... and you will be faced with a tough decession.I think the flat call pre-flop was good, but the re-raise after the flop was def necessary. Link to post Share on other sites
FromTheRail 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Eric, why would you advise against a reraise in position with a pair of 10's preflop? First, preflop we cannot pin the original raiser on A-K. A late position opener is likely to have anything from suited connectors to pocket aces. Their is no reason to assume the raiser has to have a pocket pair or A-K. The raise on the button with wired 10's allows the button to find out where he is going into the flop, by defining he has a hand. At the same time the reraise makes sure the blinds get out of the way to limit the number of people drawing at the 10's. After the flop I wouldn't consider a trap and would bet out with confidence taking down the pot. A-K is getting too much credit, we forget, it is still a drawing hand. Link to post Share on other sites
hawsdog 0 Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 that I definitely should have raised pre-flop. This puts tha AK on the defensive, gets the blind out, and probably wins me the hand post-flop when it gets checked to me and I raise $10. Link to post Share on other sites
ErikM 0 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 As anyone one knows who has played poker for any significant amount of time... there is no right or wrong answer to any situation.The inferences that i generally draw when someone in early position throws in a raise is that they have a strong ace (AK, AQ depending on the player maybe even an AJ or as weak as an AT), or a big pair TT or higher...So my thinking is that if I raise on the button with TT and I get called the raiser has one of those big ace drawing hands, and if I get re-re-raised then I am prob beat by a bigger pair.Thats why i would personally just call pre-flop and treat the TT almost like a drawing hand in the sense that I am drawing for either another 10 or a flop that contains 3 cards smaller then a 10.the Ideal flop for me would be something like 3 10 A rainbow, because then I would likely be able to extract a lot of $$ from my opponent.but say the flop came 3 6 8. Regardless of what the original raiser had he would prob fire a bet out and THEN i could raise and get him to lay down his big cards... otherwise if he had JJ or better he would prob raise me and I could dump the hand. If he just called then I would prob lean towards thinking that he had two big cards but still be cautious.Another scenario would be that the flop came with an A. My opponent bets out and I can lay down my hand without risking anymore than what it cost me to call pre flop.Again... I tend to play a little cautious. I like to see flops. So that is just the approach i would take.See I would hate to raise pre flop and have the original raiser put in another BIG raise or even push all in... then I have no choice but to lay down the TT, without ever seeing a flop.So thats my rationale. Link to post Share on other sites
ErikM 0 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Now that I re read the original post... i am realizing that the original raiser was in late position. for some reason i thought we were talking about an early position raiser.In that case... I could see re-raising pre-flop because it is possible that the raiser has a smaller pair, two big cards (KQ or KJ), Ax, or just pure trash that he is trying to steal with.So, yes I think a re-raise could be a good play here. Assuming you know your opponent is capable of making that raise with the hands I listed above.If you know your opponent to only raise with good cards... then i would revert to the approach that I posted earlier.Again... its all reletive to the strength of your opponents, chip stacks, table image... all that stuff needs to be considered.But... I do see your point on raising pre-flop and agree that that could be a good approach. Link to post Share on other sites
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