millers nlhe cashgame shortstack strat. (discussion)

[blinky 0]

After reading ed millers Getting Started In Hold'em at the bookstore a bit, I thought i would test out his NLHE shortstacked strategy for cash games. Using $10 free from royalvegas.com i tested it out at the .05/.10 blind level. The results were astonishing. Within 3 or 4 days i was up to $60+, just by a combination of following his strategy and smart play (I hope!). Each day I play I average about +$10 for about 2 hours of poker.So i thought I'd start this thread as a discussion area for peoples experiences with this strategy. Here are some of my thoughts and tips and the basic strategy:Basic Strategy:- Buy in for small amount (10-30 big blinds). - Play ultra-tight preflop, and ultra-aggressive on the flop- Utilize only two betting rounds (preflop and flop) instead of the usual 4- from early position only play AA-KK, AKs, AKo- middle position play AA-QQ, AKs-AQs, AKo- late position play AA-10s, AKs-AJs, AKo-AQo- Use ur short stack to swing the pot odds in such a way that ur opponent is pot commited on the flop when u have a hand that dominates his.Pros:- Works astonishingly well if applied properly - The reason it works is because if you wait until you are in positions where you dominate somone preflop or on the flop, while they still have a respectable hand, you can exploit that and reap the rewards.- Pretty Simple decision-making because you can only play a set number of hands from each position.- If u lose all ur chips u only lost a small buyin instead of a large oneCons:- Requires extreme patience (or something to disctract you in the dull moments)- Allows for ample outdraws and bad beats because you go all in on more than half of the pots you enter.- Good players will recognize exactly what you are doing.Tips:- I usually buy in for $3 (30 big blinds), and get blinded down to $2.60 or so before i pick up a hand worth playing, then i usually double up to $5.80 or so, then wait for a hand at which point im at $5.20 or so, then double up to $10,50 at which point i cash out for a $7+ profit- Definitely always be the raiser. If there is a raise in front of you, reraise all-in.- Position is very important because you will be playing very aggressive post-flop- pocket 10s from early position is not a hand worth playing... especially at weak tables where people will call you down with top pair of jacks with an 8 kicker (dont ask my why they were in the hand)- Make your preflop raise 4-5 big blinds instead of the standard 3, even though this will give away some information to smart players it will cut out the people trying to be cute calling your raise with 56 suited.- If u get reraised preflop go all in (ive been reraised with A-J when i have AK countless times- If you miss with you AK on the flop and try to win the pot with an all in push you still have a good chance to outdraw people on the turn and river who call you with one pair- Dont ever complete from the small blind!!! Raise or Fold- Sometimes i will deviate from the strategy a bit and play small pocket pairs from the button or button+1 to try and catch trips, and fold to any bet if I dont. This has worked with mixed results, but i dont recommend it.- When u come into the hand by checking in the big blind (which u will do a lot at weak tables) you should'nt stay in the hand unless you flop a monster. (this is VERY important)- If you get pocket Aces or Kings in early position at a loose table its a good idea to push all in as you will get a lot of callers with bad judgement and decent hands (AJs etc.)If you play your cards right you will always either have a dominating hand, or the right position to win the pot with aggression. You will get bad beats, but will be very successful over the long haulKeep in mind these conclusions are being drawn after only a week or so of using this strategy.Please add your thoughts.

[Smasharoo 0]

Using $10 free from royalvegas.com i tested it out at the .05/.10 blind level. The results were astonishing.No. The average NL player is astonishingly bad.There are 500 systems that can beat NL because the game is pathetically simple to beat against the current playerbase.Which is why it's so amusing to see winning NL players who assume they have any idea what's going on.Not you, just in general. Stick with Eddie's system, see if you can get to a grand. Will drive the FPS NL players nuts.

[econ_tim 0]

Maybe you could post a brief summary of the strategy.I gather it is buying in for only a few BBs and going all-in with a lot of hands?

[blinky 0]

Using $10 free from royalvegas.com i tested it out at the .05/.10 blind level. The results were astonishing.No.  The average NL player is astonishingly bad.There are 500 systems that can beat NL because the game is pathetically simple to beat against the current playerbase.Which is why it's so amusing to see winning NL players who assume they have any idea what's going on.Not you, just in general.  Stick with Eddie's system, see if you can get to a grand.  Will drive the FPS NL players nuts.

i understand your pointthis is actually the first time ive ventured into NL cash games online, just because i usually do .10/.25 limit or STTs or MTTs. im a decent limit HE player, but if i can make this much money off the crappy NL players why am i spending time grinding it out on the limit tables for a couple bucks a day?if this system works simply because the NL players are terrible its still worth discussing and figuring out the best way to milk these crappy players for all theyve got.

[blinky 0]

Maybe you could post a brief summary of the strategy.I gather it is buying in for only a few BBs and going all-in with a lot of hands?

oh my bad ill add that in the first post

[Smasharoo 0]

im a decent limit HE playerProbably not.While NL is quite easy to beat, there's more money in limit played well without any doubt.

[blinky 0]

im a decent limit HE playerProbably not.While NL is quite easy to beat, there's more money in limit played well without any doubt.

well you really have nothing to judge me on so i dont know where ur coming frombut by decent i mean at the low limits i play at i do just fine. i dont have poker tracker so i dont know how many BB/100 i make.this is the strategy section so id appreciate it if you would only post comments adding to the thread and keep the comments on my "probably not decent" limit game to the general section. Thanks.

[Smasharoo 0]

this is the strategy section so id appreciate it if you would only post comments adding to the thread and keep the comments on my "probably not decent" limit game to the general section. Thanks.Hi. Take your 27 posts and shove them right up your ass untill you're vomitting little grey electrons.If you tell me how or what to post again, I'll respond unkindly.

[BeanGW 0]

this is the strategy section so id appreciate it if you would only post comments adding to the thread and keep the comments on my "probably not decent" limit game to the general section. Thanks.Hi. Take your 27 posts and shove them right up your ass untill you're vomitting little grey electrons.If you tell me how or what to post again, I'll respond unkindly.

Smash... why do you need to be such a censored to the noob. He actually had a decent original post and you really were being an a$$ and adding absolutely nothing of use to the thread.While I'm all for flaming those who have nothing of value to share, alienating those who actually want to contribute to FCP by sharing their thoughts on different strategies helps absolutely no one.

[theStork 0]

blinky,thanks for the post. i've heard about his method and was thinking of trying it out. i'm primarily a sng player and this seems to fit my style.

[jamesfinch 0]

Hi. Take your 27 posts and shove them right up your ass untill you're vomitting little grey electrons.If you tell me how or what to post again, I'll respond unkindly.

Can we see a raise of hands for those who actually believe Smash contributes anything but pointless flaming to this community. I don't mind people getting flamed for stupid posts etc etc but to do it to someone who has made a very useful post as one of his first is just incredible.Smash, before you go get all flame happy on us and tell us that someone who's play you haven't even seen is bad, why don't you sit back and think why you are in such a bad mood right now. Is it because you are a losing player?I've heard that doctors these days can do great things, including helping those with their head stuck unfeasibly far up their a$$.

[Smasharoo 0]

Smash, before you go get all flame happy on us and tell us that someone who's play you haven't even seen is bad, why don't you sit back and think why you are in such a bad mood right now. Is it because you are a losing player? amazing what fucking idiots you people are.Please quote me where I commented on the guys play AT ALLI have zero intrest in overly sensitive "I'm ok, you're ok" bullshit. If you want a circle jerk of blowing each other about how you're all tight/agressive wining players destined to be pros in no time, have a good time.When you to win more (or any) money at the game, let me know.Oh by the way, yes, you hit the nail right on the head.I'm a losing player.That's ok, though, I just learned how to play two weeks ago and it takes at least three weeks of watching WPT to become a winning player, so I should be all set soon.

[Smasharoo 0]

Can we see a raise of hands for those who actually believe Smash contributes anything but pointless flaming to this community. I don't mind people getting flamed for stupid posts etc etc but to do it to someone who has made a very useful post as one of his first is just incredible.When I log onto either UB or Stars where I screw around at micro-limits, about 5 or 6 people PER SESSIION come to play with me and tell me how much I've helped their games.So you'd see a lot hands.Give up your useless self righetous bullshit white knight rescuing the por downtrodden new player act.It's cloying and banal and makes you appear to be a useless supersillious worthless poster with nothing better to do than attempt to get attention by "standing up" to me.About the 900th time we've seen this act, it was old day one.

[Absolute 0]

Smash, before you go get all flame happy on us and tell us that someone who's play you haven't even seen is bad, why don't you sit back and think why you are in such a bad mood right now. Is it because you are a losing player? amazing what censored idiots you people are.Please quote me where I commented on the guys play AT ALLI have zero intrest in overly sensitive "I'm ok, you're ok" censored. If you want a circle jerk of blowing each other about how you're all tight/agressive wining players destined to be pros in no time, have a good time.When you to win more (or any) money at the game, let me know.Oh by the way, yes, you hit the nail right on the head.I'm a losing player.That's ok, though, I just learned how to play two weeks ago and it takes at least three weeks of watching WPT to become a winning player, so I should be all set soon.

good post.for all the arguing we do, we might actually have something in common.that is, if you reply with "probably not"

[Scott31 0]

Can we see a raise of hands for those who actually believe Smash contributes anything but pointless flaming to this community. I don't mind people getting flamed for stupid posts etc etc but to do it to someone who has made a very useful post as one of his first is just incredible.When I log onto either UB or Stars where I screw around at micro-limits, about 5 or 6 people PER SESSIION come to play with me and tell me how much I've helped their games.So you'd see a lot hands.Give up your useless self righetous bullshit white knight rescuing the por downtrodden new player act.It's cloying and banal and makes you appear to be a useless supersillious worthless poster with nothing better to do than attempt to get attention by "standing up" to me.About the 900th time we've seen this act, it was old day one.

Smash,Let me first start off by saying that I like you. You're a good, knowledgeable player and the couple times I played with you, it was fun. But, lately your posts have been increasingly hostile. I know this is annoying to hear and you hear it about 5 times a month, but I wish you'd back it off a bit. You can rant, cuss at me, and tell me to go **** myself, I don't care. The new posters on here who so rarely contribute anything of substance are easy targets, and I'm glad you berate them. It brings them back down to earth. However, this OP did actually contribute something and seemingly spent a lot of time on this post. I guess in the long run, it doesn't matter at all what you say on here, but I just don't like discouraging those new posters who have an ounce of intelligence and a willingness to learn. They are so rare. Respond in anger...don't respond....it doesn't matter, I just hope you'd tone it down a bit.

[Smasharoo 0]

However, this OP did actually contribute something and seemingly spent a lot of time on this post. I didn't berrate him.He said he was a decent limit player, and I responded "Probably Not".That's it. A normal, secure individual would reply to that "Lol, true, most people who think they are good limit players probably aren't, but I'm still learning."An insecure overly sensative prig would respond:this is the strategy section so id appreciate it if you would only post comments adding to the thread and keep the comments on my "probably not decent" limit game to the general section. Thanks. Overly sesative people who misunderstand posts as being hostile which aren't recieve hostile posts so they can learn to tell the diffrence.Period.

[Scott31 0]

Overly sesative people who misunderstand posts as being hostile which aren't recieve hostile posts so they can learn to tell the diffrence.Period.

Well, I guess there are levels of hostility. I'm sure you're quite capable of cranking it up another notch (sorry just watched Emeril...), but this OP seems like a decent contributer, so crank it down. Or leave the crank alone....ahhh fukk it

[TheIceman05 0]

Overly sesative people who misunderstand posts as being hostile which aren't recieve hostile posts so they can learn to tell the diffrence.Period.

And Smash used to get beatings from his dad "for his own good" with wrenches and pipes and shitIce.

[blinky 0]

However, this OP did actually contribute something and seemingly spent a lot of time on this post. I didn't berrate him.He said he was a decent limit player, and I responded "Probably Not".That's it. A normal, secure individual would reply to that "Lol, true, most people who think they are good limit players probably aren't, but I'm still learning."An insecure overly sensative prig would respond:this is the strategy section so id appreciate it if you would only post comments adding to the thread and keep the comments on my "probably not decent" limit game to the general section. Thanks. Overly sesative people who misunderstand posts as being hostile which aren't recieve hostile posts so they can learn to tell the diffrence.Period.

youre completely missing the point my friend.i started this thread in the hopes that others who have more experience with it can post their thoughts, and so those who want to try it can do so more successfully (hopefully).i understand that u may or may not be a great limit player, bla bla bla, but i clearly stated in teh thread title NL, so keep ur limit comments aside. i could be a godawful limit player, and it wouldnt make jacksh*t of a difference as to the validity of my post.i never said your comments were hostile, i said that they didnt contribute to the thread so u shouldnt post them here.

[Smasharoo 0]

i understand that u may or may not be a great limit player, bla bla bla, but i clearly stated in teh thread title NL, so keep ur limit comments aside. i could be a godawful limit player, and it wouldnt make jacksh*t of a difference as to the validity of my post.i never said your comments were hostile, i said that they didnt contribute to the thread so u shouldnt post them here.I think they contributed.Without them it'd be on page 5 now.You're welcome.

[blinky 0]

i understand that u may or may not be a great limit player, bla bla bla, but i clearly stated in teh thread title NL, so keep ur limit comments aside. i could be a godawful limit player, and it wouldnt make jacksh*t of a difference as to the validity of my post.i never said your comments were hostile, i said that they didnt contribute to the thread so u shouldnt post them here.I think they contributed.Without them it'd be on page 5 now.You're welcome.

*sigh*anyone got any new tips for using this shortstack strategy?