what could have been done?!?!?

[Devilkin 0]

He made a read, read was correct, villain made a bad call and sucked out. It happens. No need to be so condascending, Nick.If you won't bet big with an 80% chance to win, what would you bet with, Nick? Only the nuts?Dev

[knght311 0]

Ok, your read was correct, but there is another 'read' of sorts of which to think.  Many (many many many) casino players are there to gamble.  They aren't there to play correct poker.  They aren't there to realize that they should fold.  They aren't there to figure pot odds.  They are there to get a chance to gamble to hit the best hand.  Poker-wise, your move was correct, as your read was correct.  Not necessarily a bad play.  In fact, recommending you play more cautiously MAY be bad poker advice in many instances, however here I think you had to know he would call.  When reading your original post, and I saw you specify that two hearts flopped, I could have told you exactly how the hand went.  I thought to myself, "This guy thought he could push a gambler out of a hand that had pretty colors and matching suits, and he's upset about it."You're not necessarily wrong, but I think what Nick is TRYING to say is that you could have played the hand in a manner that would minimalize your losses using your read.  But then there wouldn't be anything to post about.

Yea, he coulda minimalized his losses by playing passive and just disreguard his "read" and let the FD get there for cheap. He put himself in a situation to win a big pot as a big favorite. Anyone that posts, "well he coulda had 2P, or trips, or AK". Well, yea, he coulda, but where we there? No. This guy, if he is a decent cardplayer, should have a read on a fish, espicially after 4 hours, espicially at a casino, as to how one plays a FD. He did, he acted, he got unlucky. I don't like the post, cause it really is pointless, however, bashing a guy for going with his read, which was infact right, get off his back.I would do the same thing cause I play a very aggressive NL game. That is, if I thought he was also on some sort of draw.With that said, sets kill me in NL hold em' when I flop TPTK or (2nd kicker duhn duhn). But take it with a grain of salt..if you're in your BR area, you should be fine.OP. You make money in the long run. Let it go. - Jordan

cool 8)

[NickTheKid 0]

This is going nowhere, Jordan, you must understand we read these "suckouts" every day in the forum and I just have lost so much interest, all of these players bit and moan about getting beaten and losing all there money, but they are the ones who put it all in the middle. I have no pity for this guy, and all he wants to hear is how great of a cardplayer he is, he got a lucky read and an unlucky river.Speaking of rivers :cry: me a river.

[Jordan 1]

the thing is...you said you 'put him on the nut flush draw' anyway.  So when the heart hit, it's really insignifcant as to which two hearts it was.

this makes no sense to me...please clarify and I will respond

You assumed your opponent had a flush draw.He did.He beat you with it.Whether it was 8/5 or A/10. Does it matter to the end result? No. You bet into a flush draw and he hit it.

There really is no point to this post except to complain. Fine. Flush draws come once in a while, sucks cause the 8/5 called all in and hit. Get over it. In my opinion this crap shouldn't be posted, but it has.It is stupid to chase with 8 high FD, but whatever. The OP is obviously upset, but what upsets me is "Nick the Kid" playing high and mighty...claiming one can't "make a read" and act accordingly.Even if it is just a "pair of kings" with a Q kicker. I guess you have to have AK or AA or something.- Jordan

[NickTheKid 0]

If you won't bet big with an 80% chance to win, what would you bet with, Nick? Only the nuts?Did I say I don't do this?

[knght311 0]

No, there is nothing wrong with inducing a call from a chaser, I do it all the time, but the fact is he had a pair of KINGS. This guy is playing at the 100NL table, he isn't some master reader, he didn't "read" the hearts, more so he was AFRAID of him having two hearts. That guy could have had anything, two-pair, ak, set, your "read" was bullshit.

Wow, your attempt to decipher the caliber of a certain individual at $100 NL is so stupid.People can't read people at $100 NL cause I say so and I proclaim absolutes.If you've never put a person on a hand at $100 NL you should not be playing any higher.- Jordan

in my own defense...it was a $200 table...anyone that playes 3-5 with a $100 buy in is crazy...

[Jordan 1]

This is going nowhere, Jordan, you must understand we read these "suckouts" every day in the forum and I just have lost so much interest, all of these players bit and moan about getting beaten and losing all there money, but they are the ones who put it all in the middle. I have no pity for this guy, and all he wants to hear is how great of a cardplayer he is, he got a lucky read and an unlucky river.Speaking of rivers :cry:  me a river.

No. You're an idiot.We do read about suckouts everyday. I've stated how pointless this thread is, but your comments are even more so. He shoulda kept this to himself, but you claiming that no one can't make reads at $100 NL and act accordingly is so stupid, if you can't come to realize this, please just stop posting.I don't think he wanted anyone to say how good he is at cards. I personally don't care. You obviously do though and are intent on making your mark. You could call everything "lucky" in cards. I was lucky to hit my TPTK, I was lucky to make my opponent fold a better hand when I was bluffing. I was lucky to get AA against KK and get it all in on the flop.Blah blah. Reading a person's emotions, betting patterns, and style of play is not luck, that involves a skill and practice. You sir, are wrong, please admit this, or shush.- Jordan

[knght311 0]

This is going nowhere, Jordan, you must understand we read these "suckouts" every day in the forum and I just have lost so much interest, all of these players bit and moan about getting beaten and losing all there money, but they are the ones who put it all in the middle. I have no pity for this guy, and all he wants to hear is how great of a cardplayer he is, he got a lucky read and an unlucky river.Speaking of rivers :cry:  me a river.

No. You're an idiot.We do read about suckouts everyday. I've stated how pointless this thread is, but your comments are even more so. He shoulda kept this to himself, but you claiming that no one can't make reads at $100 NL and act accordingly is so stupid, if you can't come to realize this, please just stop posting.I don't think he wanted anyone to say how good he is at cards. I personally don't care. You obviously do though and are intent on making your mark. You could call everything "lucky" in cards. I was lucky to hit my TPTK, I was lucky to make my opponent fold a better hand when I was bluffing. I was lucky to get AA against KK and get it all in on the flop.Blah blah. Reading a person's emotions, betting patterns, and style of play is not luck, that involves a skill and practice. You sir, are wrong, please admit this, or shush.- Jordan

right on man...right on!

[dapokerbum 0]

Did I say I don't do this?

SO you are an idiot!! Why did you start this if you would do the same thing. Oh because there is no way he coulda "read" someone at his low caliber style playing. Not till you play at a $100,000,000 buy in are there reads that come into play. :roll: My goodness nick get off your high horse and then STFU :evil:

[NickTheKid 0]

YES his read was... well sort of right. But that's the point, his "read" put him on 12 outs, but he was wrong, based on the guys betting patterns, the re-raising, anyone could just have easily put him on two-pair at LEAST. The OP is complaining about how he got beaten on a 5:1 draw, and that's too bad, it happens, cry me a river. He still wants to hear what a GREAT play he made, my argument is that he obviously got a lucky read. I would really be praising the guy if he actually turned over exactly what he had "read" but he didn't, so his read on the guy wasn't so GREAT like he claims, he posts this one example because it shows what a GREAT read he made and he wants feedback on getting sucked out on, well no dice, lucky read, lucky river.

[DJ_Chaps 0]

is this the NicktheKid im thinking of?

[NickTheKid 0]

Last post: I am not on a high horse, and for sure make lots of mistakes, but this guy still made a lucky read.

[dapokerbum 0]

I am not on a high horse, and for sure make lots of mistakes, but this guy still made a lucky read.

Almost there you can almost admit you are wrong I can taste it...

[Jordan 1]

YES his read was... well sort of right. But that's the point, his "read" put him on 12 outs, but he was wrong, based on the guys betting patterns, the re-raising, anyone could just have easily put him on two-pair at LEAST. The OP is complaining about how he got beaten on a 5:1 draw, and that's too bad, it happens, cry me a river. He still wants to hear what a GREAT play he made, my argument is that he obviously got a lucky read. I would really be praising the guy if he actually turned over exactly what he had "read" but he didn't, so his read on the guy wasn't so GREAT like he claims, he posts this one example because it shows what a GREAT read he made and he wants feedback on getting sucked out on, well no dice, lucky read, lucky river.

Get over the freaking results. Seriously man.Forget the river card.Why must a "re-raise" mean at least 2 pair. This guy claims to have a read, if he is lying that is very sad, but I'll give him the benifit of a doubt.With a read that one is one a FD, I will put a raise, and if I get a call and a blank turns, I will make him pay more for the river. If it comes, it comes, doesn't change my "read". Your ego is causing you problems man, not this OP. OP is obviously upset, let that go. If it bugs you this much that a random internet poster is posting a "play he made" and you think he is just posting to toot his own horn...well...why should you care?I'm not defending the posters intentions, again I really don't care. I am defending the "skill" involved in this game though, which the majority of poker players claims this game to have. Reading people is part of the skill in the game, if it isn't skill, I don't know what to call it.Sometimes you make bad reads, or wrong reads, just like in a sport you can make a bad shot, or call a bad play, that happens....but then maybe something good comes from it. IN this case, or OP made the "right read" and "right play" but got sucked out on. Oh well. Move on. I would really be praising the guy if he actually turned over exactly what he had "read" but he didn'tOk, next time you put a man on a hand I want the numbers and suits. He put him on a FD, he was right. He acted accordingly, again right.I havn't heard him asking how great his play was. It looks pretty basic to me. I'm pretty sure this is just a stupid post he shouldnt have ever started. However, what you are posting in reply is even more dumb.- Jordan

[NickTheKid 0]

Okay, not last post then:This isn't about being RIGHT or WRONG poker bum, this is opinions on how a certain hand would be played. I would have been WRONG according to the fundemental theorum of poker, but regardless of whether it was a flush draw or a two-pair, his betting patterns suggested something better than K-Q, if this guy posted about losing to AK he would have been called a complete moron, but because it was a flush he is a hero? Please. He is looking for sympathy, you got your money in with the best hand, but you still GAMBLED on what he had, your read on the guy wasn't as strong as you suggested.That's all im saying.

[knght311 0]

Okay, not last post then:This isn't about being RIGHT or WRONG poker bum, this is opinions on how a certain hand would be played. I would have been WRONG according to the fundemental theorum of poker, but regardless of whether it was a flush draw or a two-pair, his betting patterns suggested something better than K-Q, if this guy posted about losing to AK he would have been called a complete moron, but because it was a flush he is a hero? Please. He is looking for sympathy, you got your money in with the best hand, but you still GAMBLED on what he had, your read on the guy wasn't as strong as you suggested.That's all im saying.

My betting pattern had NOTHING to do with the cards that I was holding and EVERYTHING to do with the cards I thought he was holding...who gives a **** what I had? Like someone said before I could have had a pair of deuces...but I didn't...I was watching out for a heart or an A and one came

[NickTheKid 0]

Okay, not last post then:This isn't about being RIGHT or WRONG poker bum, this is opinions on how a certain hand would be played. I would have been WRONG according to the fundemental theorum of poker, but regardless of whether it was a flush draw or a two-pair, his betting patterns suggested something better than K-Q, if this guy posted about losing to AK he would have been called a complete moron, but because it was a flush he is a hero? Please. He is looking for sympathy, you got your money in with the best hand, but you still GAMBLED on what he had, your read on the guy wasn't as strong as you suggested.That's all im saying.

My betting pattern had NOTHING to do with the cards that I was holding and EVERYTHING to do with the cards I thought he was holding...who gives a censored what I had? Like someone said before I could have had a pair of deuces...but I didn't...I was watching out for a heart or an A and one came

I was referring too your opponents betting patterns, slueth.

[Devilkin 0]

Whether his read was perfect (nut flush draw) or close enough (flush draw) is a moot point.Point is, he had the ability and confidence to make a judgement on his opponents holdings, and act upon this. Too many players fail to act on their reads (if any) and it costs them way more in the end.Yes, it was an expensive hand, but it happens. Nothing really he could have done not to lose the hand - the villian was bound and bent to see it to showdown.Could he have minimized his losses? Perhaps, but Im happy to see someone with enough conviction to make a read and act on it. Dev

[dapokerbum 0]

I was talking about being wrong in the way you chastised him for his "read". Just read everything Jordan has said and that pretty much sums up why we are defending the OP.

[Jordan 1]

Okay, not last post then:This isn't about being RIGHT or WRONG poker bum, this is opinions on how a certain hand would be played. I would have been WRONG according to the fundemental theorum of poker, but regardless of whether it was a flush draw or a two-pair, his betting patterns suggested something better than K-Q, if this guy posted about losing to AK he would have been called a complete moron, but because it was a flush he is a hero? Please. He is looking for sympathy, you got your money in with the best hand, but you still GAMBLED on what he had, your read on the guy wasn't as strong as you suggested.That's all im saying.

LoL.I don't know where poker bum came from..but whatever I dont care.Anyways.I don't think he is a hero or a moron. We make choices at a table. Sometiems they are right, sometimes they are wrong. I guess, if betting patterns were the only way to put someone on a hand, and only one type of hand, you'd be right, but it's not.THE op had been playing with this dude for a few hours and had pegged him. Yea, he gambled that the FD wouldn't hit. It did. He shouldn't have posted this either way in my opinion. It's just a bad beat, or unlucky beat post. Why isn't his read as strong as suggested? Find me some proof.I'm personally not looking at results. On the turn, if I have my man on a flush draw and I making him pay. The flop action should enlighten me as to how to act. Obviously, our OP had this info and did it.But, cause you like ripping peoples reads, let me give you my "bad" read.I'm second in chips, home tourney, i have about 15k, which I had built on a lot of bluffs, and one from top set that I killed action with on the flop.I get 87hearts on button. Big stack raises me from CO, I call, one other calls. Big stack was getting lucky and had been raising a lot. Also was making a lot of bad calls.Flop is 95K, he stares at the board for a long ass time and underbets 1k, I raise to 5k. Oops, he calls. I still don't think he is strong and decide if I get any help on the turn I'm going to bet. Well, I pick up a FD to go with my gut shot and I move in on him. He takes a while and eventually decides to call turning 10-10. River is a blank and I lose. I've thought the hand and I know where I made my mistakes. I bluffed a big stack/calling station. Stupid. However, I went with my read and that's how I play. I'll do it again. What I learned...(which I should have already known) don't bluff a big stack calling station, even with a "read". However, I woulda taken the free card had the turn not provided me with a FD. Although it could be argued, and rightfully so, that I should have taken the free card since I improved to a flush draw. If I miss everything on the river I just fold and live to play. Oh well. It's a game.Now please rip on me and not this post cause you really are not doing a good job.- Jordan

[NickTheKid 0]

Dev see this is all I am saying, I would have put him on something more than a flush draw but I would have been wrong, but I would have saved myself lots of money, I have put all my money in on bluffs, draws, pairs, two-pairs, flushes, EVERYTHING you can imagine, but there is a point in that hand where you gotta sit back and consider "Maybe he has more than a flush draw"

[DJ_Chaps 0]

^^^^stupidest play ever??

[knght311 0]

Dev see this is all I am saying, I would have put him on something more than a flush draw but I would have been wrong, but I would have saved myself lots of money, I have put all my money in on bluffs, draws, pairs, two-pairs, flushes, EVERYTHING you can imagine, but there is a point in that hand where you gotta sit back and consider "Maybe he has more than a flush draw"

If this is the case then you suck at reads...and cards

[NickTheKid 0]

Okay! Last post I'm going to make this too the point. Yes my ARGUMENT was in his read, and it is my opinion his read was lucky, which one of you can put his opponent on a flush draw when he bets like that? Nobody. It suggested a lot more strength then a draw.

[DJ_Chaps 0]

is this the NicktheKid im thinking of?