when big slick doesn't catch?

[jsull 0]

What do you do?Twice this weekend playing no-limit I seem to have made horrible mistakes trying to take the pot with it.Typical scenario (50c bb NL) : holding A K I raise to $2, and get one caller.Typical Flop is Q 7 10 , so I have a straight draw as well, So I definitely feel like I have to chase.Other times it's 5 8 2 or something low end like that.... I end up chasing these all the time, and betting aggressively (3/4 to full pot) on them only to end up busted.Should I just be check/calling when it doesn't hit? Or should I try to chase people off the pot by trying to represent pocket Aces or Kings like I have been? The last couple of times have REALLY not worked out well with it, and I'm very confused.

[CobaltBlue 662]

All depends, my friend. If your opponents are the kind that will actually fold when they catch a small piece of the board, you should definitely bet. If you're playing really terrible players, and they represent that they have a piece, you should back off. It's very hard to bluff bad players. If there are a lot of opponents to the flop (3 or more), I usually play it more passively if I miss.As for chasing...don't chase without odds.And, I feel you on this topic. For a while, I was having a rough time with this situation. However, I notice that I do end up taking a number of pots on the flop when I carry through with the betting. If I don't, I can slow down on the turn. If find that if your opponent bets a small amount on the flop and you raise him quite a bit, you're much more likely to take down the pot as you've fully represented high pockets.

[T0xic 0]

I usuallly look at it this way; how much am I willing to pay to chase this hand? If I am willing to put and additional $2 on the flop, another $2 on the turn and another bet on the river trying to make my hand I will usually bet anywhere from $4 to $8 right up front to try and steal (only if the guy has not proven to be a maniac). If I get reraised I drop it. If I get called, maybe I just bought 2 free cards. But hopefully I just bought the pot .Maybe I wrong here, I am interested how others handle this situation.

[Royal_Tour 0]

What do you do?Twice this weekend playing no-limit I seem to have made horrible mistakes trying to take the pot with it.Typical scenario (50c bb NL) : holding A  K     I raise to $2, and get one caller.Typical Flop is Q  7   10  , so I have a straight draw as well,  So I definitely feel like I have to chase.Other times it's 5 8 2 or something low end like that....  I end up chasing these all the time, and betting aggressively (3/4 to full pot) on them only to end up busted.Should I just be check/calling when it doesn't hit?  Or should I try to chase people off the pot by trying to represent pocket Aces or Kings like I have been?   The last couple of times have REALLY not worked out well with it, and I'm very confused.

AK is a drawing hand, and the way you can play it changes from senerio to senerio.In your case, if this was tournament play, you obviously want to raise pre flop, and hope to hit a piece. Then fold to any large bets if u dont.If you first to act with this hand., always bet out. If someone calls.. or goes over the top, then re-think your spot.Cash games are different. (its a hand that scares me everytime i get it)

[Leedspokerguru 0]

If you raise pre flop(which you should) have a stab at it on the flop with , in this case, a $3-5 bet. If you get called your getting to see more cards, however you should slow down from here unless you improve. If you get re raised ont he flop it's ok to ditch. If he folds then you picked up the pot on a semi bluff. Key with AK is aggression, but not mindless aggression. If you have more people seeing the flop then consider the foloow up bet. Are they calling stations? are the tight? It's all situational but raising and re raising with AK is never a bad move just learn to give it up if they play back at you.

[Devilkin 0]

Leeds has it right on - raise with it, try to represent a high pocket pair, even if you miss. Bet it out. If they play back at you with a big raise, fold it up - you have the information you wanted.If its heads up, Id try to see another card. If its a multiway pot and people are betting, A high probably isn't the best hand.I'd like to disagree with the statement above that AK is a drawing hand. In a heads up pot, often AK is the best hand. We all know how hard it is to hit a flop, and hands such as AQ/AJ, KQ and KJ all suffer against it. Throw in there the drawing hands (9Ts on a flop of 256), and AK isnt looking so bad.Be careful with it, but don't toss it if you don't hit on the flop necessarily. How you play it depends on number of opponents, position, betting patterns and fold equity you've built.Dev

[Royal_Tour 0]

Leeds has it right on - raise with it, try to represent a high pocket pair, even if you miss.  Bet it out.  If they play back at you with a big raise, fold it up - you have the information you wanted.If its heads up, Id try to see another card.  If its a multiway pot and people are betting, A high probably isn't the best hand.I'd like to disagree with the statement above that AK is a drawing hand.  In a heads up pot, often AK is the best hand.  We all know how hard it is to hit a flop, and hands such as AQ/AJ, KQ and KJ all suffer against it.  Throw in there the drawing hands (9Ts on a flop of 256), and AK isnt looking so bad.Be careful with it, but don't toss it if you don't hit on the flop necessarily.  How you play it depends on number of opponents, position, betting patterns and fold equity you've built.Dev

Sorry Devil.. If you notice i pretty much said exactly what Leeds said.I also stated that AK is a drawing hand. which is exactly what it is. You cannot call it anything else but a drawing hand. It is behind to any pocket pair.Not arguing. But its a simple fact that its considered a drawing hand

[Devilkin 0]

Hi Royal. Sorry didn't mean to dismiss what you said above - you made good points also. I still would like to talk about AK as a drawing hand.AK isnt a drawing hand heads up - A high is perfectly capable of winning a heads up pot when your opponent doesn't improve on the flop, especially in NL. Other drawing hands, like 9Ts cannot do this effectively.AK is a drawing hand in a multiway pot, for sure.AK is also a good semi-bluff hand - the odd time Ill check to an opponent in a 2 or 3 way pot, and reraise a small or mid sized bet. Often the button will bet when checked to regardless of whether they hit or not, so a reraise will put a damper of the auto-button bet. If I get played back at, Ill give them credit for hitting a piece of the flop, and see the turn. Im not saying Ill check down AK to the showdown every time - it depends on my opposition and his betting patterns. But I've won many a heads up pots with AK unimproved, or by hanging in to the river when a K or A hits to win over his previously top pair.Dev

[Royal_Tour 0]

Hey, Thanks for your explanationI agree AK in heads up is huge. i just didnt touch on that since the OP was talking about multi -way pots.But we are both on the same page. :wink:

[sjm20 0]

whenever I get the curse of good hands (AK, QQ, JJ) I usually play the flop. I usually consider that whoever called my raise probably has a certain kind of hand. If you're late position I would probably fold to a bet in front of you, but early position I would probably check a flop like Q 10 8 and reraise to get a free card...just me-sm

[jsull 0]

thanks guys for your advice. Sounds like I'm just being too aggressive after I get called on the flop. I need to slow down there I guess. Because I'll do it again (another 3/4 to full pot bet) and get called on it.

[Devilkin 0]

thanks guys for your advice.  Sounds like I'm just being too aggressive after I get called on the flop.  I need to slow down there I guess.  Because I'll do it again (another 3/4 to full pot bet) and get called on it.

Thats a valid point to discuss - if you get called instead of raised, you have to try to put your opponents on a hand. If its multiway, you have to assume that someone has hit part of the flop, and assess based on their betting patterns in the past, and pot odds, whether its fruitful to chase an A or K on the turn.I like betting the flop, and if called, check/folding the turn if it doesn't improve. If your opponent also checks the turn, put him on a drawing hand, and hope your A high is still good.Dev