laying down AA preflop

[Smasharoo 0]

Correction...all good plays are playing to win right from the start, all bad players try to survive in the beginning and near the money. I bet you are one of those players who just plays to make the money, and doesnt wanna go out so close to the money. Good players play to win, and if they really dont care if there is 10 people or 10,000 people left. GOOD players would never fold AA pre-flop...thats just idiotic. Playing to "survive" is the worst strategy in the poker worldWho are you talking to?You quoted my post then argue in favor of exactly what I said then point out that I was arguing the other side.Learning to read was tough last year wasn't it?

[Eskimo 0]

precisely- eskimo.I've said it once, and I'll say it again.  The author of the article wasn't advocating laying down AA in any situation other than in the one described.  It is an incredibly rare situation.  But let's not forget- AA is nothing other than a pair.  Against that many people someone is bound to be able draw to better than one pair.let's put this baby to bed.

If I have AA, I'd take my chances. Sure you have a shot at being outdrawn, you always do. On any hand. Hey, AA vs. 23o with a 2-3-2 flop still sucks. But if you're going to go all-in and take the shot, I'd rather do it with AA than anything else. I don't think I'd lay down AA pre-flop if you put a gun to my head...That being said, I just laid down QQ pre-flop last night... <sigh>

I think you're missing the point too. You don't just have a shot at being outdrawn, you have a 60% chance to get outdrawn! It doesn't matter what hand you hold, its not a good time to go all-in. Of course if i went all-in, i'd like to go all-in with AA but in this scenario it is the wrong play.

[Guest XXEddie]

Correction...all good plays are playing to win right from the start, all bad players try to survive in the beginning and near the money. I bet you are one of those players who just plays to make the money, and doesnt wanna go out so close to the money. Good players play to win, and if they really dont care if there is 10 people or 10,000 people left. GOOD players would never fold AA pre-flop...thats just idiotic. Playing to "survive" is the worst strategy in the poker worldWho are you talking to?You quoted my post then argue in favor of exactly what I said then point out that I was arguing the other side.Learning to read was tough last year wasn't it?

No I wasnt you said......."your goal early is to survive..." No, your goal 100% of the time is to win....not to survive

[JFarrell20 1]

Go back and read my last post. It explains everything.More people in pot means more likely you're outdrawn.More people in pot means more $ you can win.The ONLY variable is DO YOU WANT TO GAMBLE. This is dependent on your individual tournament goals (finish in the money, or get the bracelet, etc.)

[Smasharoo 0]

No I wasnt you said......."your goal early is to survive..." No, your goal 100% of the time is to win....not to surviveTough to win when you get all your money in the middle when you're favored to lose.I think that's the point.

[Guest XXEddie]

No I wasnt you said......."your goal early is to survive..." No, your goal 100% of the time is to win....not to surviveTough to win when you get all your money in the middle when you're favored to lose.I think that's the point.

Its also tough to win when you start folding AA preflop

[Smasharoo 0]

Its also tough to win when you start folding AA preflopOf course it isn't. It's not even remotely simmilar. You could fold AA every hand you got it for the rst of your life and still win more tournaments than you will if you get all of your money in while a favorite to lose it.Understand?

[Guest XXEddie]

Hmmm....lets see if I understand....your saying to fold AA preflop ...hmmm, No i still dont get it. Even though you are more likely to lose the hand than win....you are still more likely to win the hand than anybody else. And if you really think you have the same chance to win a tournament if you fold AA everytime.....come sit at my game with me! talk about dead money

[wrto4556 0]

Who cares that you will win more than everyone else!You have to think about those other three people as one! They are a 60% to win, you are a 40% favorite to win! It's an easy fold.If you held K Q , and for some unknown reason correctly put your opponent on A J , and he puts you all in, would you call?Your KQs is a 40% to win? Just like the Aces described in the situation above. Be open minded and actually think! Analyze!

[jklimtsc 0]

XXEddie, you just don't get it do you? The way to win tournaments is to be the only guy left at the end with chips. If you continue to put yourself in situations where you have all of your chips in the pot and you are not the favorite to win, you will continue to lose tournaments. If you make smart decisions and make sure your chips are going into the pot when you are the favorite then you will win more tournaments. If that means you have to fold monster cards pre-flop sometimes then that is what you should do. Do you honestly think the most successful tournament players are always risking their tournament life when they're underdogs? They wouldn't be very successful if they did that now would they?You even said it yourself in the last post "Even though you are more likely to lose the hand than win" you should still play the hand because it's AA. Do you understand the absurdity of that statement. If you really want to talk about dead money, please come and play at my table if you're going to consistently play hands where you are a 3-2 dog. I love players like you, I bet you're the guy who calls multiple bets in a multi-way pot when you're holding AK when the board is 3 4 5 right?

[wrto4556 0]

Well he's got the inside straight to go with his over-cards. It's obviously time to raise. It's definately +EV.

[Ship_It 0]

I don't think I'd lay down AA pre-flop if you put a gun to my head... That being said, I just laid down QQ pre-flop last night... <sigh>I can't tell you how many times I've folded QQ pre-flop, if that is an accomplishment for you then you need to re-assess your style of play.

[Guest XXEddie]

XXEddie, you just don't get it do you? The way to win tournaments is to be the only guy left at the end with chips. If you continue to put yourself in situations where you have all of your chips in the pot and you are not the favorite to win, you will continue to lose tournaments. If you make smart decisions and make sure your chips are going into the pot when you are the favorite then you will win more tournaments. If that means you have to fold monster cards pre-flop sometimes then that is what you should do. Do you honestly think the most successful tournament players are always risking their tournament life when they're underdogs? They wouldn't be very successful if they did that now would they?You even said it yourself in the last post "Even though you are more likely to lose the hand than win" you should still play the hand because it's AA. Do you understand the absurdity of that statement. If you really want to talk about dead money, please come and play at my table if you're going to consistently play hands where you are a 3-2 dog. I love players like you, I bet you're the guy who calls multiple bets in a multi-way pot when you're holding AK when the board is 3 4 5 right?

Thank you captain obvious...i didnt know that to win a tourney...you need to be the last one left....And ok whatever...If you guys wanna fold AA pre-fold...be my guest, and come sit at my table please. On you little AK, 3 4 5 flop comment...no, I know when to fold a good starting hand that turns to crap....and no AA preflop is not one of them

[Hardrocker 0]

Great discussion...I love it!!!It just goes to show the different way people think.I most likely would lay it down in this spot, because I want to know that I am THE favorite (overall, not just againt one hand).Seriously jumps in most pay structures for beating another 2-3 people at a final table.I have to this point never laid down aces pre-flop (after quite a few times), but it is only one hand.I also like seeing the people who don't look at their cards, or just plain leave the table when bubble time hits...lol.

[slappy110 0]

we all...or i would hope all...understand that we will lose in this spot 6out of 10 times and only win 4 out of 10 times...you say to regard them as 1...but theres the problem...if they were just one person, you would be 1:1 on a 2:3 shot...but with THREE people in the pot...youre getting 3:1 on your 2:3...its a question of pot odds more than anything...i dont necessarily disagree with laying it down in this spot, im just pointing out that the argument isnt whether or not youre going to win or lose the hand most likely...its the return on investment vs. the likelyhood of getting knocked out of the tournament and if the risk is worth it, mathematically

[Guest]

Give me A-A and lets see what happens to my stack

[looshle 6]

Here's a situation to analyze:You're in a multi table tournament, down to 3 players. Chip stacks: You 20,000Button 400,000SB 400,0001st place pays 3.5 million2nd place pays 2 million3rd pays 500,000The button raises all in first to act, the small blind checks his cards and calls. You look down at A A What do you do?

[Guest XXEddie]

Here's a situation to analyze:You're in a multi table tournament, down to 3 players. Chip stacks: You 20,000Button 400,000SB 400,0001st place pays 3.5 million2nd place pays 2 million3rd pays 500,000The button raises all in first to act, the small blind checks his cards and calls. You look down at A A What do you do?

Acually, there is a pretty good exception. I would only fold if they are really EXCATLY even.