I'm ashamed to ask, but what am I doing wrong?

[DKE_XP120 0]

To give you a quick background on my situation, I started playing poker the summer before my freshman year of college, about 2 and a half years ago and havent stopped since. I play cash games with a group of friends about every other night when im home from school, and usually turn a small profit, but we dont play for big stakes (being the poor college student I am) And have weekly tournaments with other groups of friends while im at school. About 8-10 players, some which take poker serious, others just for fun, and i win almost every tourney, if not ill come in second, sometimes third, but only failed to cash once. However ive also been playing online for about a year and a half or so, and I cant seem to turn up any real profit. I make money sometimes and lose others, I just cant seem to make a steady game. I usually play at either .25/.50 or .5/1 limit holdem tables, $5 Single table tourneys and .10/.20 PL Omaha games. I feel I play pretty well, conservative but get aggressive sometimes also. I also play a fair about of multi table tourneys, and for the most part finish in the top 10-15% just about everytime, Ive won a few and made small cashes many times, but nothing too significant. I know im not great, but I also know I dont suck, and should be getting a decent return on my money. I cant for the life of me figure out what im doing wrong, I avoid tilt,I read articles by alot of pros and read a few books. I use statistics and pot odds when making decisions. If anyone out there has some advice on making a steady earning online i'd really appreciate the help. As I said, im no novice to the game, and it just seems like im always getting beat out of pots that im highly favored to win..... But I know its not steady bad luck, im just doing something wrong.Thanks to anyone who might be able to help.DKE_120

[Smasharoo 0]

http://www.twoplustwo.com/books.html#Small...takes%20Hold'emStick to limit HE untill it's clear you're winning at it, then worry about Omaha or tournaments or whatever.Good luck.

[hawsdog 0]

the $25 and $50 dollar max buy no-limit tables are pretty easy to beat, since you can trap and bet big and for some reason people are almost always willing to call. I also suggest increasing the number of hands you limp to see flops with in this style of game, since the blinds are quite small compared to turn and river raises. Hope that helps, just don't use it to beat me!

[DKE_XP120 0]

First off, thanks for the quick responses... Being the poor student i am, when I go to sit at a .25/.50 table, I always seem to talk myself out of taking a decent amout to sit with, and end up sitting with $8-10... I always tell myself that im being stupid and should bring more, but then I say "what the hell are you doing steve, you have no money, your an idiot and cant afford to lose" and I bring a small amount, any idea on what a good amount to bring to a low limit table is?

[Smasharoo 0]

$15 is fine for .25/.50.Stop playing NL if you are and not winning after a year and focus on limit.

[bdluss 0]

Well your last post just answered a big part of your problem, you are playing with scared $. When you are buying in for such low amounts (and as you said Steve dont buy in for more) you are admitting to me at least that you are not gonna play your best game, but rather play a little more passive than you should be. As a result you are probably pushed off the best hand to many times and are not getting involved in enough pots (like the prevoius poster mentioned by limping in) because you are concerned about losing a few blinds even. My recommendation would be this, either a) go down limits to a point where you are comfortable losing the $ in front of you and therefor you will be able to play your best game B) play more tournaments as the chips you have is not really $ and therefor you can play less scared c) separete your poker bankroll from any relation to actual $ you have and therefor play solely out of the poker income. Hope this helps.

[theben 0]

if you only want to risk 10$ a session, i advise playing at the .05/.10 NL10$ ring game tables. you'll be buying in for the same amount, playing against slightly weaker players, and having 100BBs instead of being shortstacked at 20bbs.if you must play the .25/.50NL, 25$ or 50$ buyins, then buyin for the max or you'll only be cheating yourself.

[thef0x 0]

Would 50$ be enough money to bring into a .5/1$ buy in at limit?

[mreevit 0]

In limit hold em about 25-30 big bets should be sufficient. In another post someone recommended "small stakes hold em". This is a good book to help you learn limit play, but a good next step should be either "The Theory of Poker" or "Hold Em Poker for advanced players". Both are by the same author, Sklansky. Another few good reads which will help your game, "Caro's Book of Tells", and "Zen and the Art of Poker". The Zen book helped me in limit because I always found myself steaming and losing it when I had one of the very common bad beats in limit poker. Oh well I think I am talking too much and will attempt to shut up now. later.

[thef0x 0]

what was your very common bad beat?

[DemonDeac 0]

DKE, Small Stake Hold Em (SSHE) is a godsend for poker players who don't play that high of limits. This is true cuz most of teh players there suck and this book knows that. I am a college student like yourself and have doen fairly well in NL tourneys which is what I mainly did. But after reading this book and going on the twoplustwo.com website and reading that, I know I can consistently win against others in holdem. I read for about two week the website and for the first time played a limit ring game in person and turned $100 into $280 in about 2.5 to 3 hrs. Now that's alot I know for you and me, both college students. So studying the game through the website and SSHE and knowing how to take advantage of your idiotic opponents will greatly help your game. Hope this helps.

[SPACEAPE48 0]

Same deal here; college student with no wins online. Tonight I played a $10 tournament and was up for a while as chip leader but then, like every time before, I catch a run of shitty hands. Most of my opponents bluff a lot but with no cards to call them on it's a waist.I've come to lean that bluffing before they do usually gets the bluffers out the pot. My bad beat of the night- Ak and get two pair on flop- all in vs a pair of A- he gets a third A on the river- bad beat? You betAnyhow, best of luck man, I'm about cashed out but will likely deposit more funds, think of it as your money going torwards an investment rather than a stupid movie or luch or something,lol

[allinbluff35 0]

My bad beat of the night- Ak and get two pair on flop- all in vs a pair of A- he gets a third A on the river- bad beat? You bet You got two pair on the flop A's and K's and a third ace on the river giving you three A's and two K's which is a full house aces full of kings, how did you lose may I ask?

[DKE_XP120 0]

Well lately ive had a few that crushed me, for starters I had AQ vs 10-7... Flop was K-J-4 rainbow.... so the only thing he could win with was a 7 being as his 10 would give me a strait.... Turn was a 3, River was a 7... he had 3 outs..... That was like 95% to win, then I had Ace-Ace beat by someone who went called an all in with 6-6 and lost I know those happen, but still 80% Then in a .5/1 NL room last night I had A-A vs A-K and the flop came KK2 ( :evil: ) and crushed my stack, it seems like I get alot of really tough hits when I seem to be playing them right.

[Jamestl 0]

Something that I've learned when I moved from live poker to online poker is that it's a much different game. You describe feeling like you lose a lot of hands that you are highly favored to win and this is likely due to the fact that you play MANY more hands than you do in a live game. The speed of online poker increases the number of bad beats so it has a different feel. It's also difficult to get tells when you can't see someone. This is especially different from a live game at home that you play with your friends whose tells you know like the back of your hand. The other tips about online poker in this thread are very valuable also. Just realize that the bad beats seem to come more often because of the increased number of hands, and make sure you stick to that advice and keep yourself off tilt. It can really hurt you in online poker.

[DKE_XP120 0]

I tried to avoid the tilt factor at all costs, but since im on such low limits .5/1 it seems like no one thinks as much as they should... I was in a game tonight and was holding A-A in mid position, person after the BB calls the .5 I raise to $1, next two people after me call, BB calls and early position calls also.... Flop Comes (6-4-A Rainbow) perfect for me, I dont slow play aces so I bet... person after me calls, and early limper calls.next card is a queen, I bet again, guy after me folds and the early limper calls again..... Now, its about a $6-7 pot and it will call him $1 to see the river, he has K-J offsuit giving him and inside strait draw.....4 outs at the max, 5% chance to hit it..... he has a 20-1 shot to hit it, but pays the 7-1... its as if Pot Odds are a mystery to him. He catches his 10 on the river for an ace high strait vs my set of aces..... I should think of these people as easy money, yet they my weakest point in poker, I cant seem to take down retards, but ill play against a bunch of people who read and study poker and come out on top... im done complaining for the night.... I got my wisdom teeth out today, so Im sore as heck! The Vicoden make the pain better, but I dont like being on a narcotic, so i only took the 2 and ill live with advil the next couple of days, im going to bed, cause all i wanna do is ramble....Thanks again for all your help!Feel free to contact me if you have some good advice or even need adviceSteve93 on AIMor sgglynn@bloomu.eduor Steve93@aol.com

[HMartin5000 0]

When it comes to beats like the one you just mentioned with the set of Aces beat by the Broadway straight, you absolutely always want to put your money in in that situation!!! You want that guy to call you, every time, because you make money a lot more than you lose. Ya, we all get beat due to the laws of chance, but that's poker! You take the good with the bad. S happens!By all means don't knock yourself or get hard on yourself, because these things do happen, to everyone. Just remember that if you keep putting yourself in these very good situations (80% favorite +) that the odds are on your side, and they have to draw out on you. Yes, it does happen, but you want them to call you in the long run every time. Play consistently, play well, and play to win. Take care.

[codyscherer 0]

Not sure what site you are on, but if it is party poker, or empire you will have people that play at those low limits and will call you to the river every time with any chance to win. Even if it is a gut straight draw. It is frustrating but you have to realize some of those people are not in the same situation as you. They might make 100,000 a year and are just playing low limits for kicks and those extra bucks mean nothing to them. When you are on a site with 50,000 people on it a night you will get a few of them at each table. Second, I agree with the other person, playing with scared money is bad, plus having a big stack at the table is good for table presence. When I see someone low at the table, I go after them and perceive them as weak. (that might not be the case but that is how I look at them) You also might of mentioned playing 5.00 sng. IF you are, dont any more. 10.00 or higher in those. The rake is 20% at 5.00. When starting out, I went to NL 25.00 or 50.00 buy in tables. Blinds are like .50/1.00. This is a great place to start if NL is your better game and fits your style. You can get those chasers out with bigger bets and when they miss (% says they will miss more than hit) you will get paid better. I played at PP at the 50NL ring tables and people will call all in's for like 35-50.00 sometimes with 2nd highest pair or gut shot or worse. There is just a lot of people who dont know odds there and you can tear it up. ya, they might hit on you sometimes, but play strong and dont aces with crap kickers, its a death trap in NL.

[ps 0]

.....4 outs at the max, 5% chance to hit it..... he has a 20-1 shot to hit it, but pays the 7-1...  its as if Pot Odds are a mystery to him.

It's 9% for a 10 to 1 shot. Add implied odds for the river and perhaps some value in getting you on tilt, and it's not such a horrible call. If you want to be able to make people pay more than their draw is worth, try NL or PL. Of course first you should be able to do the math without making mistakes even when you are frustrated (the percentages for the other hand you described are off too), and you MUST be able to tell when you play worse due to tilt and take a break. This is not as trivial as it sounds.

[Smasharoo 0]

he has a 20-1 shot to hit it, but pays the 7-1... its as if Pot Odds are a mystery to him. He has a ten to 1 shot to hit it and he can folf if he doesn't and get's an extra bet on the river when he does, so really he only needs around 5 to 1 to call.It's as if Implied Odds are a mystery to you.He's right to call there.

[ps 0]

really he only needs around 5 to 1 to call.

Can't say I agree to this. Do you expect someone to 5-bet a pot after a possible straight hit on the river?

[Smasharoo 0]

Can't say I agree to this. Do you expect someone to 5-bet a pot after a possible straight hit on the river?Nope, I expect him to get two more on the river nearly allways, though. I misread it and thought there were 3 to the river. Heads up he needs 7 to 1 ish to call.Still correct for him to call here.

[DKE_XP120 0]

Maybe im complely wrong here, but someone flopping only 3 cards to a strait..... not even connected cards by the way, so he needed to inside runners in a row and calling the bets all the way just seems stupid, its not as if there was a huge pot to call with.... and it may have been 10 to one after the turn but after the flop his odds were alot lower.. and he only got 1 bet out on me on the river, when he started betting into me, I figured he must have been chasing something and I just called, and in my opinion anyone who said he played that correctly must be a little off.. he called betting all the way with a very shitty draw.

[Smasharoo 0]

I figured he must have been chasing something and I just called, and in my opinion anyone who said he played that correctly must be a little off.. he called betting all the way with a very censored draw.One, you're missing an easy value raise against two pair on that river. That's a lot more costly in the long run than getting drawn out on occasionally with a set.Two, he made lots of mistakes with his hand, starting with cold calling a raise with KJ pre-flop. His turn call is correct though.If you want to critisize his play critisize the parts where he made mistakes.

[tsimon 0]

It's 9% for a 10 to 1 shotActually, it's 8.7% for an 11.5 to 1 shot. Calling that turn bet was not the right call in that situation. There would have to be at least $9 in the pot and more likely $10 to make this the right call. You are only going to get two more bets on the river, so that's all the implied odds are worth. $9 might be enough if you consider the "putting someone on tilt" factor.