A German's View Of Islam

[All_In 0]

of course it is the christians who are doing the majority of the slaughtering in the world.is it not a terrorist act to remotely bomb civilians with drones?

[vbnautilus 48]

is it not a terrorist act to remotely bomb civilians with drones?

Not necessarily.

[Balloon guy 158]

of course it is the christians who are doing the majority of the slaughtering in the world.is it not a terrorist act to remotely bomb civilians with drones?

What should we do?Throw those bombs away and WASTE them?

[CaneBrain 95]

of course it is the christians who are doing the majority of the slaughtering in the world.is it not a terrorist act to remotely bomb civilians with drones?

It depends.

[All_In 0]

It depends.

on what?

[All_In 0]

Not necessarily.

please explain.

[CaneBrain 95]

on what?

on whether the terrorists the drones are after are using civilians as a shield.that's one example anyway.

[vbnautilus 48]

please explain.

I think the point of terrorism is that you are leveraging fear on a civilian population in order to achieve some political goal. There are circumstances where civilians get killed in war that don't qualify as terrorism (e.g. the bombing of Berlin in WWII is not terrorism). It also has a lot to do with intention -- if you are trying to bomb a military bunker and you accidentally hit a hospital, that is not terrorism.

[Balloon guy 158]

I think the point of terrorism is that you are leveraging fear on a civilian population in order to achieve some political goal. There are circumstances where civilians get killed in war that don't qualify as terrorism (e.g. the bombing of Berlin in WWII is not terrorism). It also has a lot to do with intention -- if you are trying to bomb a military bunker and you accidentally hit a hospital, that is not terrorism.

what if Al-jazeer says it is?

[All_In 0]

on whether the terrorists the drones are after are using civilians as a shield.that's one example anyway.

what if the 'terrorists' are not using them as shields. What if the area is heavily congested, and there's nowhere to go to 'fight on a field' or whatever?what if the targets are traveling through a civilian area?

[Balloon guy 158]

what if the 'terrorists' are not using them as shields. What if the area is heavily congested, and there's nowhere to go to 'fight on a field' or whatever?what if the targets are traveling through a civilian area?

Too bad.They shouldn't be terrorist in the first place.

[All_In 0]

I think the point of terrorism is that you are leveraging fear on a civilian population in order to achieve some political goal. There are circumstances where civilians get killed in war that don't qualify as terrorism (e.g. the bombing of Berlin in WWII is not terrorism). It also has a lot to do with intention -- if you are trying to bomb a military bunker and you accidentally hit a hospital, that is not terrorism.

how about if the bomber just doesn't care whether or not civilians are killed, is that not terroristic; to constantly be in fear of an arbitrary death 'just because'?what if u knew that there was a high probability of the hospital being hit or damaged?

[Balloon guy 158]

how about if the bomber just doesn't care whether or not civilians are killed, is that not terroristic; to constantly be in fear of an arbitrary death 'just because'?what if u knew that there was a high probability of the hospital being hit or damaged?

Too bad.Bomber have schedules to keep too

[SweetDee 0]

how about if the bomber just doesn't care whether or not civilians are killed, is that not terroristic; to constantly be in fear of an arbitrary death 'just because'?what if u knew that there was a high probability of the hospital being hit or damaged?

Define care. Civilian casualties happen in war. The question is, are the civilians targeted with purpose or are they just in the way people that can't be helped? It also ups the ante just a bit when the in the way people, based on numerous past experiences, might just actually be not so much in the way people. It makes for quite a bit less black and white than your posts would seem to allow for. Interestingly enough, your posts could be used in speeches made by Muslim extremists looking to recruit.

[SweetDee 0]

Too bad.Bomber have schedules to keep too

Starting to agree with this guy, just post nonsense right back.

[vbnautilus 48]

how about if the bomber just doesn't care whether or not civilians are killed, is that not terroristic; to constantly be in fear of an arbitrary death 'just because'?what if u knew that there was a high probability of the hospital being hit or damaged?

Or what if I just kept generating hypotheticals without responding to the point of what you were saying?

[Avaron 0]

The implicit assumption here is that all religions are exactly equal in their potential to do harm. I do not see why we would ever assume that to be true. Certain ideas are more dangerous than others. Small details in a set of ideas can matter quite a bit.

guns don't kill people, people kill people. of course has every religion the same potential to do harm, it just depends on how some crazy radicals interprete them. bible and koran are basically from the same tree, just different branches. in both books can you find passages with the potential to be interpreted as harmful.

No one thinks that every muslim is a suicide bomber. If I say to you I am going to start a set of ideas which will lead to 100 people who are very nice, but will create 15 people who are intent on destroying the world, wouldn't you think that was a problem? The whole point of this essay too was that the so-called peaceful majority of muslims are complicit in the damage that the so-called radicals are creating. And, they kind of have to be, because those guys are not "perverting" the religion as is heard so often, they are actually following it more closely.

not necessarily. how about all the violent missionaries in our history, who basically gave this choice: "convert or die"? did they pervert catholizism or did they follow it more closely?

[vbnautilus 48]

of course has every religion the same potential to do harm,

Why should we believe this? The same exact potential to do harm? Exact same for every religion and ideology? Why do you think that? Satanism just as dangerous as Christianity for example?

it just depends on how some crazy radicals interprete them. bible and koran are basically from the same tree, just different branches. in both books can you find passages with the potential to be interpreted as harmful.

And they are both harmful. But Islam is worse.

not necessarily. how about all the violent missionaries in our history, who basically gave this choice: "convert or die"? did they pervert catholizism or did they follow it more closely?

I don't know who you're referring to exactly, so I can't really answer this. But certainly fundamentalists are people who follow the religion more closely - by definition. And those people are crazy, yes.

[Avaron 0]

Why should we believe this? The same exact potential to do harm? Exact same for every religion and ideology? Why do you think that? Satanism just as dangerous as Christianity for example?

since it just depends on the people that created them, yes. satanism has its origins in christianity...

And they are both harmful. But Islam is worse.

their radicals are worse than the christian radicals in our days. but in essence, you can compare them to the christian radicals a couple of centuries ago.i know , it's a long shot, but i sometimes think that islam, as it is "younger" than christianity, gose through a similar state christianity had during the times of crusades, burning of witches etc. christanity was very authoritarian and wanted basically the same things, islam wants today: more power, bigger territory etc.

I don't know who you're referring to exactly, so I can't really answer this. But certainly fundamentalists are people who follow the religion more closely - by definition. And those people are crazy, yes.

agreed. it's often stated, that the world would be a lot more peaceful without religions. i think, it would be enough if all the religions thought about their similarities. christianity, islam and judaism have the same roots and even relate on each other.

[Balloon guy 158]

In 2007 Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.Good link showing the 'religion of peace'

[Avaron 0]

In 2007 Islam and Judaism's holiest holidays overlapped for 10 days.Muslims racked up 397 dead bodies in 94 terror attacks across 10countries during this time... while Jews worked on their 159th Nobel Prize.Good link showing the 'religion of peace'

what took you so long?^^well, it's all about spin these days. as i said, there are radicals in every religion. if you dig deep enough, i'm pretty sure you'll find radical jews also. and that there has been terror with christian background recently should be obvious (not talking about crusades. ireland.).i'm not accusing or defending anything. just stating facts and my opinion. the reason that the potential for terrorism is that big in islam, lies more in infrastructural, territorial, educational problems. why does the potential for radicalism and terror develop in areas like yemen, somalia, afghanistan/pakistan border regions, etc? why do the most suicide bombers and actual terrorists (not the guys in the background) come from those countries and not from saudi arabia, katar, dubai - all muslim countries also?

[Balloon guy 158]

what took you so long?^^well, it's all about spin these days. as i said, there are radicals in every religion. if you dig deep enough, i'm pretty sure you'll find radical jews also. and that there has been terror with christian background recently should be obvious (not talking about crusades. ireland.).i'm not accusing or defending anything. just stating facts and my opinion. the reason that the potential for terrorism is that big in islam, lies more in infrastructural, territorial, educational problems. why does the potential for radicalism and terror develop in areas like yemen, somalia, afghanistan/pakistan border regions, etc? why do the most suicide bombers and actual terrorists (not the guys in the background) come from those countries and not from saudi arabia, katar, dubai - all muslim countries also?

You do notice that you are quick to point out the 'other' factors when considering Islamic violence, while ignoring these same factors to point to Christian violence?

[Avaron 0]

You do notice that you are quick to point out the 'other' factors when considering Islamic violence, while ignoring these same factors to point to Christian violence?

am i? weren't the reasons in northern ireland mostly territorial and infrastructural?

[Balloon guy 158]

am i? weren't the reasons in northern ireland mostly territorial and infrastructural?

At first, but soon it was the Catholic fertility rate that caused the rise in violence.

[SlapStick 0]

The Irish issue was wanting to belong to the crown or not. Generally the English and Scottish descendants lived in the north and wanted to stay with the crown, they were obviously Protestant as the UK was Protestant. The Irish didn't want to be part of the crown and obviously were Catholic. Religion was not the issue it just came hand and hand with which side of the fence you were on so please stop bringing up the religious issue and throwing Irelands name in this debate. Some of the greatest leaders against the English were Irish protestants.If you fancy a read Charles Stewart Parnell is one of them and my favourite ever Irish Person.Edit: Catholic fertility rate, when Ireland got free the English/Scottish descendants all lived in the north and they got to stay with the crown while Ireland became independent (not until 1936 but nevermind for now). A tiny number of Irish catholics lived there and grew and grew but they couldn't vote or get jobs and a lot became refugees. So yea the Catholics multiplied like crazy until there was too many that they had to be given the right to vote etc and the oppression lead to extremism.