Flush And Straight Draw On Flop From Sb

[RISEorFall 0]

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP3 ($100)CO ($37.30)Button ($37.85)Hero (SB) ($99)BB ($63.35)UTG ($44.60)UTG+1 ($122.30)MP1 ($112.35)MP2 ($157.90)Preflop: Hero is SB with J , Q , 5 , 6 2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.50, BB checksFlop: ($3) 10 , K , J (3 players)Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $3, Hero calls $3, 1 foldTurn: ($9) 3 (2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets $9, Hero.....new to table, i dont know any of the players. i feel like i should have been more active on the flop.

[SwolyswoND 1]

I think calling turn and calling river if you hit one of the draws is fine.I'm not sure raising flop is good, both of these guys can have literally almost AFC. Your draws are not to the nuts and its still multiway, with you being oop.I have no problem being passive here. Edit: Initially I said if you were going to c/r to do it on the turn not the flop, but I've changed my mind. I'm pretty much never raising this.

[rrumsey 0]

Seems like a standard repot or close to pot raise IMO on flop, he probably has a similar hand to you. I wouldn't worry about flopped sets, draw are the main concern, so see if you can pick it off right hereAs played, I don't like the position we are stuck in on turn. We could dump or call. Raising is out of the question, he may have like a combo draw of some sort and we can push them out and we are practically turning our hand into almost a pure bluff then. Call and check fold blank river is ok on blanks. I wouldn't mind a dump on turn but we are deep enough that if call we have some implied odds if we hit river we may be able to induce a check raise. I don't like the float personally bc our outs may be dead, its a tough spot when we don't raise the flop. We are just too weak to call imo and too many draws that call a bet to raise so dump is my favorite opinion closely followed by calling.

[rrumsey 0]

I'm pretty much never raising this.

I agree with you on this up until here and i think we agree if you are talking about the turn

[redhollywood 0]

you need to be cautious with this hand because you are not drawing to the nuts and you can easily end up on the lower side of the straighta and flush. I agree with being passive. I think repoting on the flop is a bad call because what are you going to do if villian repots you? Make the call, take a card, and proceed from there.

[RISEorFall 0]

I think calling turn and calling river if you hit one of the draws is fine.

but im wondering how much value my draws have. i suffer really bad from reverse implied odds here. my hand seems pretty face up if i just c/c both streets.

[Frez 0]

You don't have enough outs to call a pot bet on the turn, even if you knew for certain that if you made you hand, it would be best. He could have flopped a straight, either the nut straight, or a lower straight with or without a redraw to a Broadway (I don't think an Ace is a super card for you). And of course bigger flush draws. Put those together and there exists a notable non-zero chance that you were drawing dead on the flop.Weak hand and poor position may even make this a preflop fold.

[rrumsey 0]

You don't have enough outs to call a pot bet on the turn, even if you knew for certain that if you made you hand, it would be best. He could have flopped a straight, either the nut straight, or a lower straight with or without a redraw to a Broadway (I don't think an Ace is a super card for you). And of course bigger flush draws. Put those together and there exists a notable non-zero chance that you were drawing dead on the flop.Weak hand and poor position may even make this a preflop fold.

you really ditch on flop? i know its not amazing but we can't see a turn and reevaulate?

[RISEorFall 0]

(I don't think an Ace is a super card for you).

why is the A bad? Ah is great because it gives me the nut flush. a 9 would worry me more because i could still be up against the nut straight, whereas if an A comes im often tying but villain cant have a better straight. i cant bet for value with either, really, but if a 9 comes i dont like calling a bet because usually at best im hoping to split.also, as "being active" on the flop i meant more like leading out rather than c/r. i might have a better idea of where i stand. i hate to get raised, tho, as with all my draws i wont want to fold but a raise could mean a made hand and better draw which sucks for me.

[redhollywood 0]

I think you see a turn and reevaluate there but if you don't hit one of your draws its an automatic fold on turn.

[Frez 0]

why is the A bad? Ah is great because it gives me the nut flush. a 9 would worry me more because i could still be up against the nut straight, whereas if an A comes im often tying but villain cant have a better straight. i cant bet for value with either, really, but if a 9 comes i dont like calling a bet because usually at best im hoping to split.

Ya, sorry, missed the Ah thing. But let's count up the outs. 4 Aces, one is solid, the others are at least potentially splits. So say 2.5 outs, 3 at most.8 other flush cards, but we could be beat by a bigger flush. Count that as 4 or 5 outs maybe?A 9 may have some bad RIO, or maybe a split, so I'd only count the 3 non heart 9s as 1 out.Of course the turn puts out a diamond flush, so now the 9d and Ad are ugly, so discount 1 out there.So what does that give us, effectively 7 or 8 outs? With one card to come, you need 4.8-1 or better to call a turn bet. Of course calling a pot turn bet is 2-1.The math is essentially the same from the flop to the turn, and that's the problem with calling a flop bet. There is one card we love, several cards that are OK (but may result in a split), and the rest of the cards we think may be okay, could actually be really bad. So most of the time we make our hand we're still uncomfortable. And you are getting freerolled some amoutn of the time.And that's why it's very marginal preflop, because we're gonna find ourselves in these shitty situations so often.