Ruling Decision

[pbwl11 0]

Live full ring 3/6 LHE table. After all the cards are dealt, the dealer is filling his tray brought by the runner, and not really paying attention to the action. The player in the the big blind has a lamer for $100 for another buy in. UTG+1 raises preflop, everyone folds around to the big blind who says call, but the dealer apparently didn't hear cus he's still messing with his tray, looks up, and seeing no action after the raise, collects all the cards into the muck, pushing the small blinds chips to UTG+1. We point out that the big blind had said call, but all the cards are already mixed together in the muck. Dealer calls the floor over for a ruling.Floor determines that it is a totally dead hand, and that the the small and big blinds be returned to the posters, as if the hand never occured, and we move on to the next hand.UTG+1 argues that the blinds should be his because their hands are dead.Correct or not?

[GWCGWC 83]

Wait, what?after reading again, the BB should protect his/her hand. The BB called but let the dealer take his/her cards. The BB has forfeited any claim to the pot. UTG should receive the blinds AND the bet that the BB called. next hand.

[GetSprung 0]

UTG+1 should receive both blinds as well as the call of the player withthe lammer. It is his responsibility to stop the retarded dealer from taking his cards. UTG+1 should win the pot because of pure stupidity on the part of anyone else involved.

[Suited_Up 2]

Honestly, I don't disagree with the protect your hand thing.But also... I don't totally hate what the floor decided. It really sucks when it comes down to a dealer mistake like that. So I feel like a re-do is kinda appropriate, whether the cards were protected or not.

[Sportsmack 0]

I don't totally hate what the floor decided. It really sucks when it comes down to a dealer mistake like that. So I feel like a re-do is kinda appropriate, whether the cards were protected or not.

edit: wow, didn't realize my next post is 2K...hmmmmmmm.

[Suited_Up 2]

edit: wow, didn't realize my next post is 2K...hmmmmmmm.

So whatever you say for the ruling auto wins. Think it through.

[GetSprung 0]

I'd also like to add that the player who said call and then somehow got his cards into the dealer should no longer be allowed to play live poker. He called a raise preflop and then decided not only should he not protect his hand but he shouldn't worry about holding onto his cards. I honestly can't deal with incompetence by players or dealers. Fire them all.

[cdipierr 0]

As the floor, I wouldn't want to get into the argument about whether the hand was protected and the dealer made a mistake, etc. etc. so I'd probably rule that UTG+1 gets his bet back, BB gets his blind back, and the SB is chopped between the two since he had folded.

[GWCGWC 83]

Honestly, I don't disagree with the protect your hand thing.But also... I don't totally hate what the floor decided. It really sucks when it comes down to a dealer mistake like that. So I feel like a re-do is kinda appropriate, whether the cards were protected or not.

So you protect the BB who let the dealer take his hand and penalize UTG?yea, that's wrong

[A_Bullets_A 0]

The casinos I've been to or worked at have similar rules about the dealer putting cards in the muck when they mistakenly think the hand is over. The hand is dead. The ruling is fine.

[GWCGWC 83]

The casinos I've been to or worked at have similar rules about the dealer putting cards in the muck when they mistakenly think the hand is over. The hand is dead. The ruling is fine.

um, what?

[A_Bullets_A 0]

um, what?

The dealer made a mistake and thought the hand was already over. When he thought there was no more action, he must have put the stub in with the muck. At the casinos I know, the hand is dead as soon as this happens. It doesn't have anything to do with the player's hole cards getting mucked.

[GWCGWC 83]

The dealer made a mistake and thought the hand was already over. When he thought there was no more action, he must have put the stub in with the muck. At the casinos I know, the hand is dead as soon as this happens. It doesn't have anything to do with the player's hole cards getting mucked.

awe poop, you're rightthanks for the clarification.

[Suited_Up 2]

So you protect the BB who let the dealer take his hand and penalize UTG?yea, that's wrong

I didn't say either one was right....

awe poop, you're rightthanks for the clarification.

But yeah, I guess it wasn't so bad?

[GetSprung 0]

The casinos I've been to or worked at have similar rules about the dealer putting cards in the muck when they mistakenly think the hand is over. The hand is dead. The ruling is fine.

Nope.

The dealer made a mistake and thought the hand was already over. When he thought there was no more action, he must have put the stub in with the muck. At the casinos I know, the hand is dead as soon as this happens. It doesn't have anything to do with the player's hole cards getting mucked.

Not sure I've ever seen a dealer drop the stub and mix it around without taking in all the hands. Methinks you aren't reading the action correctly. Everyone should still be fired.

[A_Bullets_A 0]

Nope.Not sure I've ever seen a dealer drop the stub and mix it around without taking in all the hands. Methinks you aren't reading the action correctly. Everyone should still be fired.

He would almost certainly put the stub down as soon as he thought the hand was over. I'm not saying anything was mixed with the muck, the stub was probably just on top of it. It doesn't matter that it's not mixed yet and that it's still easy to identify and seperate the stub from the muck. As soon as it touches the muck the hand is dead. Might be different rules in different places, but that's how it works here anyways. It sucks to kill the hand just because the dealer made a mistake and I agree that he did a bad job not paying better attention, but I think the ruling is fine.If I've misunderstood the action and the player's hand was mucked before the stub was put down into the muck, then it's as if the player called the bet and then folded. Again it sucks that the dealer wasn't paying closer attention, but it's up to the player to protect his hand more carefully. If this was the case, he still owes the money for the call and the pot goes to the player who raised.I do agree though, that whatever it was, everyone should be fired.