Syous 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 utg is most likely a fish. limps utg and the mr on the turn is something a regular almost never does. no info on himI really think I goofed up on this hand. The turn is such a shove becuase I'm only behind t9, 99, and 66 and given the way he played, t9 is like the only realistic hand in my mind. He's for sure not getting away from trips here and a heart kills my action.On the river, T8 now gets added to his range and I'm cringing a bit because c/r here sucks as he's never calling (well he shouldn't be) with worse. So now I'm sitting there thinking, oh! Well it is a scare card and donking is such a suspicious line, why don't I just fire away! Surely I'll get called by a frustrated trips here!Thoughts on turn shove and river donk?Poker StarsNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $2/$46 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $235.75UTG+1: $751.60CO: $398Button: $495.40Hero: $542.15BB: $400Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with J K UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, BB checks.Flop: 6 T 9 ($12, 3 players)Hero bets $8, BB folds, UTG calls.Turn: T ($28, 2 players)Hero bets $20, UTG raises to $40, Hero calls.River: 8 ($108, 2 players)Hero bets $76, UTG raises all-in $183.75, Hero folds. Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Anyone raise preflop?River is vomit inducing. I can't see him having a worse flush. This has to be a boat. Looks like a good fold. Don't think I could make it, but I'm on monkey tilt at the minute. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Given that he's a 1/2 stack I think just getting it in on the turn is best. If he was a full stack it would be trickier, and I think your line would probably be best.Against a full stack I'd consider 3bet/folding the turn on the basis that he doesn't 4bet worse, but he will call with worse. The problem is, that makes a ton of rivers pretty awkward OOP with the pot and stack sizes. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think you should definitely 3-bet the turn when he only has 55BBs, on that board I think there are enough non FH hands that he can continue with that you don't need to wait for the river (and being OOP that's diffuclt to play as well). On the river, I don't think I like leading into him because I think he's going to be value betting most of his hands so you're not gaining a tonne by stopping him from checking behind imo. Though that might just be because lead/folding feels horrible.Is check raising the river really that horrible? Given that he's a half stack, limped UTG and min raised the turn I think it's safe to assume he's most likely a donk and will call with hands he shouldn't no? I mean, he's not folding a flush anywhere in the hand(i don't think anyway), and possibly not even a straight or AT.This hand is confusing me Link to post Share on other sites
Syous 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 I think you should definitely 3-bet the turn when he only has 55BBs, on that board I think there are enough non FH hands that he can continue with that you don't need to wait for the river (and being OOP that's diffuclt to play as well). On the river, I don't think I like leading into him because I think he's going to be value betting most of his hands so you're not gaining a tonne by stopping him from checking behind imo. Though that might just be because lead/folding feels horrible.Is check raising the river really that horrible? Given that he's a half stack, limped UTG and min raised the turn I think it's safe to assume he's most likely a donk and will call with hands he shouldn't no? I mean, he's not folding a flush anywhere in the hand(i don't think anyway), and possibly not even a straight or AT.This hand is confusing medo you think he's really going to be value betting trips once that 8 falls? Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 do you think he's really going to be value betting trips once that 8 falls?Well, its not the so I'd think it was possible. Hero should never have a straight on a 3-flush + paired board, so he may well think trips is good. Link to post Share on other sites
Syous 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Well, its not the so I'd think it was possible. Hero should never have a straight on a 3-flush + paired board, so he may well think trips is good.what, why not? he only minraised the turn Link to post Share on other sites
LJB723 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 what, why not? he only minraised the turnOK. But hero would have to have JQ which is a much smaller part of his range. I'd think at 2/4 villain would be aware of that. Plus if hero did have that would villain not expect it to go in on the turn if Hero has a heart draw too? Hero may also c/c river with the straight and no heart. Link to post Share on other sites
Syous 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 OK. But hero would have to have JQ which is a much smaller part of his range. I'd think at 2/4 villain would be aware of that. Plus if hero did have that would villain not expect it to go in on the turn if Hero has a heart draw too? Hero may also c/c river with the straight and no heart.the guys' a complete fish. I forgot to write that in the description but he limps utg and now minraises the turn? Every fish is going to be afraid of that card Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 the guys' a complete fish. I forgot to write that in the description but he limps utg and now minraises the turn? Every fish is going to be afraid of that cardWhat about a fish with Ah10x? I think you have to get all the money in on the turn given that he's short. I guess after the fact, it's likely that we're beat after the river action, but how do you not get it in on the turn? Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 do you think he's really going to be value betting trips once that 8 falls?Missed what the river made the board look like so i agree that he'll check behind trips now, I'm still not locked on lead/folding though, any possibility that he'll try and bluff? Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Sorry, I'm getting this in on the turn, and if I donk that river I'm calling the shove.I agree we're beat quite often in this spot, but we have to be beat virtually every time. If our only read is "he could quite possibly be a fish" to me means he could "quite possibly overvalue hands one in four times so we can make this call"Raise preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
Syous 0 Posted July 29, 2008 Author Share Posted July 29, 2008 Missed what the river made the board look like so i agree that he'll check behind trips now, I'm still not locked on lead/folding though, any possibility that he'll try and bluff?he's got a lot of balls if he can bluff thereyes, turn is def a shovepreflop - I don't think you have to raise. You can but checking is fine Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 he's got a lot of balls if he can bluff thereyes, turn is def a shovepreflop - I don't think you have to raise. You can but checking is fineI think if UTG is a major fish, you have to raise KJ suited in SB for value. Link to post Share on other sites
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