Bad Play, Bad Luck, Or Bad Beat?

[teetdogs 0]

Ok, so here goes my first time posting a hand and wanting some feedback so bear with me.The game is Limit Hold'em $2 - $6 spreadButton - Me $160Player 1- Tight But super Aggresive Player Only playing premium cards - $300ishBlind - New Player no read - $50ishI am delt QJ Clubs call $2 blind Seat next to me Calls $2 ( I know he has a decent hand since he is in but didn't raise like he would with a Big PP or AK, AQ) Blind checks. [u]Flop:[/u]8s Jd 7SPlayer 1 - CheckBlind - Bet $6Me - CallPlayer 1 - CallTurn:2dPlayer 1 - CheckBlind - $6Me - Raise to $12Player 1 - CallBlind - CallRiver:4dPlayer 1 - CheckBlind $6Me - Raise $12Player 1 - FoldBlind - CallBlind Turns over 8 and 4 for two pair against my Jacks. Now did I play this badly for limit hold'em? I am used to playing no Limit online so I dont have alot of Limit Experience.Was this bad play or just plain ol' bad luck?Any comments?For the record this hand put me on crazy tilt so I had to cash out and lick my wounds or know I would have lost the rest of my chips

[antistuff 0]

you got unlucky. however i also think you played it poorly. the flop is so draw heavy that you need to raise his bet then and there. also as you played it raising the river is just crazy, there is no value there.

[teetdogs 0]

Thanks for the feedback,My reasoning for only calling on the flop was the same reason you said I should have raised... it was so draw heavy. and if a spade came on the turn I i could fold and only lose a small pot. thats why I raised on the turn since nothing seemed to hit and if they were drawing to a flush there would be slimmer odds of calling a raise with only 1 card left to come.

[antistuff 0]

Thanks for the feedback,My reasoning for only calling on the flop was the same reason you said I should have raised... it was so draw heavy. and if a spade came on the turn I i could fold and only lose a small pot. thats why I raised on the turn since nothing seemed to hit and if they were drawing to a flush there would be slimmer odds of calling a raise with only 1 card left to come.

there are some places where that is the right play. i do not think this is one of them.

[teetdogs 0]

Fair enough, thanks for the input. For arguments sake, why do not think this play was right in this situation?

[Actuary 3]

I'm not experienced with spread games; but in general here:There are so many turn cards you don't want to see (lots of draws flush and Straight, over cards), I don't mind waiting for the turn.You are in a good pos to face Player 1 with a tough call if he's drawingkeep in mind I'm a marginal player who does not currently playps. Why did you not raise preflop?

[Actuary 3]

let me add - I don't see a problem with raising the flop either.For VALUEYou are ahead and should win more than 33% of the time.Also, some of those scary cards, like a 9 or 10, actualyl improve you hand a bit as well.A flop raise will also give some info on the strength of the bettors hand.

[teetdogs 0]

My reasoning at the time was thisPlayer 1 has only been playing premium hands usually raising with them but With something like K 10 I could see him just calling. and While Qc Jc isn't a bad hand by any means, its not the greatest. also alot of hands that I had seen player 1 play beat me even a small PP beats me if I miss the flop. Also I have basicly no information about the other player in the hand. I have never played with him before and this was the first or second hand he had been sitting at the table so I had no information what so ever as to what kind of cards he may be playing. So I made the decision to play it safe and see a cheap flop. In retrospect I probably should have raised after the flop but again I was trying to play it safe since there was 2 other players in and I had limited info and there were alot of draws.

[Actuary 3]

oh, and I just now read past the turn.I don't like to see results before I post. It's jsut a crazy quirk I have.But, were you trying to represent a flush on the river?Did you raise because you thought you had the Blind beat but not sure if Player 1 had you beat, so you wanted P1 to fold?And finally, the hand history doesn't seem to make sense.Why is Player 1 acting before the Blind? Is Player 1 the Small Blind?If so, I really don't like limping first in from Button