Decisions Based On Pot Size

[jmkiser 0]

Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Villain (big blind) is 19/10/1.08 after 104 hands. Call down because of pot size?Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9, 9. 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, SB calls, BB caps, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.I was attempting to isolate a fish with the 3bet. BB felt he needed to butt in Flop: (18 SB) J, 3, 2(4 players)SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.huge odds, so I callDo we raise or fold here?Turn: (11 BB) 7(4 players)SB checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB folds.Spade draw develops that could be good. We still have huge pot odds.River: (14 BB) J(3 players)BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.I know it's a huge overcall... pot is so big. Do we really fold here?Final Pot: 17 BB

[Hiles Mall 0]

i was going to reply till i saw the quote in your avatar.

[jmkiser 0]

i was going to reply till i saw the quote in your avatar.

ok?good thenIf the quote offended you that much, then you're definitely not the type of person whose opinion I ever valued in the first place. I am, personally, a bit disgusted by fundamentalist blind faith as it is.anyway, I'm such a huge donk. When was the right time to fold this? I am so terrible at folding.Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , . UTG posts a blind of $0.25. 2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB 3-bets, UTG (poster) calls, Hero calls.Flop: (9.40 SB) , , (4 players)BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.Turn: (9.70 BB) (4 players)BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.River: (12.70 BB) (4 players)BB bets, UTG raises, Hero calls, BB calls.Final Pot: 18.70 BB

[Zach6668 513]

What makes you think you're ever ahead on the river in the second hand?

[jmkiser 0]

What makes you think you're ever ahead on the river in the second hand?

I don't :(Not really relative to the hands that I've posted above, but do you ever just get chased down so much that it makes you want to physically puke? I didn't think I was ahead in the hands above... not talking about them. But I can't tell you how frustrating the last few days have been. I've lost some sick sick sick pots. Right before writing this, the cherry on the cake was JJ going to a capped flop with 5 people and hitting Jxx... and getting sucked out on. I expect this stuff to happen once in awhile, but it's starting to really feel like the norm recently, especially online.

[Zach6668 513]

Sorry, the river is the right place to fold there. I'd call turn and one bet on the river, usually.

[KoRnholio 2]

If the quote offended you that much, then you're definitely not the type of person whose opinion I ever valued in the first place. I am, personally, a bit disgusted by fundamentalist blind faith as it is.

Just because of this great quote I will reply :)Hand one I can't overcall on the river unless I have a read. It is plausible that we are still winning and/or have a live flush draw on the turn, but it's a thin thin call. On the river 3way I doubt BB is betting anything we can beat, plus MP1's call should make this a routine fold.Hand two is fine until the river cold call. That was a gross card and UTG has a flush there very, very often.

[Zach6668 513]

Not really relative to the hands that I've posted above, but do you ever just get chased down so much that it makes you want to physically puke? I didn't think I was ahead in the hands above... not talking about them. But I can't tell you how frustrating the last few days have been. I've lost some sick sick sick pots. Right before writing this, the cherry on the cake was JJ going to a capped flop with 5 people and hitting Jxx... and getting sucked out on. I expect this stuff to happen once in awhile, but it's starting to really feel like the norm recently, especially online.

Welcome to LHE.:-)I've had >50k hand breakeven stretches, fwiw. A separate 500 BB downswing.It's a cruel game.Part of being a winning player is understand why these things happen, and knowing how to deal with it.

[checkymcfold 0]

Welcome to LHE.:-)I've had >50k hand breakeven stretches, fwiw. A separate 500 BB downswing.It's a cruel game.Part of being a winning player is understand why these things happen, and knowing how to deal with it choosing a good, sharp knife with which to stab your eyes out.

FYP. :)as to the hands, on the first one, i probably play it the same in a ginormous pot unless one of the villains is a huge nit or anyone capping pre always has QQ+. if one of those things is the case, you're playing this for set value only, are priced in for a turn, and can muck there or the river most of the time (the latter if your FD is rarely good). as to the second, your play points to an important idea in LHE: making a plan for future streets to feel less lost. as soon as you get 3bet preflop, you are no longer in charge of the hand and have to play reactive poker. this is obv tough, and a good reason for capping light more often than most players are comfortable doing. that said, i wouldn't cap here in a 3way pot, js .on the flop, you think you like your hand again. 3betting ranges are typically more often pairs than AK or AQ, so you have a couple choices: you can decide that you want to show the hand down and minimize value from AK/AQ that beat you and maximizing value from a 2-outer pair that might find a fold if you raise somewhere by just calling down. in 3way pots, this usually needs to be modified slightly by doing something to get the pot HU with the aggressor. your relative position to the pf3bettor just makes this impossible, so if you want to show the hand down in all cases, just go ahead and call all the way down. if you don't always want to show down, you can raise/fold the flop or raise/call and fold the turn UI. in this size pot, they're similar in terms of profitability (edit: i guess with the Jh i lean raise/call, fold UI in that case).on the turn, if you've decided to show the hand down, you should probably just go passive and call down no matter what, folding to 2 cold if you have to somewhere. that said, i don't think this is a good spot to show down tpgk at all. bb 3bet us on the flop, which in a 3way pot COULD mean he wants isolation with KK/QQ or something, but more often is going to mean "**** off, i have an ace too, and my kicker beats yours." to that end, you can actually raise/fold the flop against standard players, imo. the pot's not that big, and he could have a set, which you're basically drawing dead against.fwiw, when utg plays a flop passively like that and calls two bets cold at some point and then doesn't wake up on the turn, s/he almost always has a fd. when the heart comes on the end and utg wakes up, i'd muck AK sometimes, much less AJ, which is literally never good here.hope the wordy thought process stuff helps.

[jmkiser 0]

The wordy response definitely helps. I learned a good amount about blind play from the Stox book and now I think I need to fix some undefined leaks regarding what I've recently posted. Would a simple lesson to take out of this be to slow down and just think realistically about what I'm facing? I think my frustration played a large part in wanting to SD in the second hand for some reason. I almost want to relay that one to tilt. When I re-read that hand a thousand times, I see myself folding the river when I'm not pissed off.I've never had tilt issues like this, but I don't think I've ever lost like this. I mean, I've had all the beats in the world, but it's mostly about how so many have been coming so fast over a small period of time. 90% of the time it's flopping strong... even REALLY strong and just not making it to the river. Maybe my next lesson is more on the big swings of LHE.My thinking at the tables has been consumed a lot of staying in the right mindset and not tilting off chips. I lost it last night at the casino (probably a catalyst of my online play today) when I was leading top set into a ginormous pre-flop capped pot. Of course, no one folded and probably rightly so and I got sucked out on. It wasn't really that one hand more then a culmination of the last few days. For some reason, after that, I just started calling with the wildest cards. I was taking the worst shots with the worst cards trying catch miracles myself. I didn't get them and proceeded to practically just give away my last 3BB and storm out of the casino.That is very uncharacteristic of me and I'm glad that I know myself better and can evaluate. I don't see the swings as something I can't handle, just more of something I need to learn to handle or just experience them.Thanks for the assistance of these boards. I wouldn't be where I am today (and getting better) if it wasn't for FCP.

[Frez 0]

Would a simple lesson to take out of this be to slow down and just think realistically about what I'm facing?

In a word: YES.Second level of poker thinking.Still need to work on it myself...