.50/1 6 Max Lhe

[whatgreatis 0]

I have no reads on villain. This hand occurred during the first button rotation of me sitting down.PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, J. Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) Q, T, 6(3 players)BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB calls.Turn: (4.25 BB) T(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.River: (8.25 BB) 8(2 players)BB bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 8.25 BBResults in white below: BB doesn't show. Outcome: BB wins 8.25 BB. How many of you raise QJ UTG at 6 max?Should I call the river?I thought about raising the turn/fold or raise/check behind on river.

[Zach6668 513]

I think I fold preflop, but it's borderline.That's not the biggest mistake in this hand, though.Here's my question to you. Why did you call the turn?

[Zach6668 513]

Also, post 6-max hands in the Shorthanded Limit Forum.

[KoRnholio 2]

Call river.

[whatgreatis 0]

I think I fold preflop, but it's borderline.That's not the biggest mistake in this hand, though.Here's my question to you. Why did you call the turn?

I thought his range consisted of straight draws so I called to see if the river completed a straight. Once it did, I decided to just give up which felt pretty weak.I felt his range could be either a 10 or straight draw. Looking back it could also be a queen.

[whatgreatis 0]

Looking back on the hand I think I might rather raise the turn and fold to a cap or raise the turn and check behind on the river. Anyone think thats the best way to play this hand?

[Zach6668 513]

I thought his range consisted of straight draws so I called to see if the river completed a straight. Once it did, I decided to just give up which felt pretty weak.I felt his range could be either a 10 or straight draw. Looking back it could also be a queen.

K, well, here's the thing.Your line is inconsistent.We either think he's drawing, or has a worse hand, and we call down,ORWe give him credit for a T or a set or whatever, and we muck the turn.=============When you call the turn, and fold the river, you're implying that you were drawing, and that you missed the river. Now, in the case that you can somehow magically put him on exactly J9, then this line holds true (we were drawing to 40 outs that are not one of the 8s).In reality though, this doesn't happen. We can't assign him a range that is that tight, and really, we're not drawing on this board. If he has a T, we've got 2 outs, and we're not getting the odds. If he's got a better Q, then again, we've got 3 outs only, and not getting the odds.So, if we think we're behind, and against some players this is easy to tell, we fold immediately.If we think there's a chance he's semibluffing, or making a raise with a worse hand, then we commit to calling down. For that, we look at our effective call down odds.In this case, there's 7.25 BB in the pot, when it's back to us on the turn. BB is almost always going to fire this river, so add 1 BB to that, and we need to call 2 BB to see showdown. 8.25-2 = 4.125-1. These are our call down odds, which means we need to be ahead, at showdown 1/5.125 times (19.5%). In this hand, if you assign a draw into his range, then we certainly are ahead 20% of the time at showdown. You can do a range analysis using Pokerstove here, and if our equity is >19.5%, then we're good to call down. Of course, that means we should call this particular river. Although, it does fill in one of the draws, it doesn't fill every draw.Again though, I want to remind you that there are some villains where we can simply fold this turn.=============To complete this post, I also want to bring up a situation where I'd actually advocate the opposite of what I'm saying here. It comes up a lot more in HU situations than it does in a game like 6-max or full ring, simply because it's more of an information-saturated environment.If I'm playing a villain, who will not 3-barrel bluff, or will never bluff the river (aka check down his weaker hands, ace highs, etc), then I'd advocate using the check/call, check/call, check/fold line.It doesn't come up a lot in 6-max, but basically, on the turn, we quantify our call by saying assuming that we're ahead often enough to pay 1 bet to see showdown and/or improve to the best hand on the river, but once villain bets the river, we can narrow his range enough to the point that he's going to be ahead of us way too often to call given the odds.Happens a lot in an HU situation where say I call a raise with 67s. I'm BB and OOP. Flop is K96, for example. In an HU game, folding a pair is an awful idea on the flop. We could choose other lines, of course, but for this one, we'll check/call the flop, check/call the 2 on the turn, and check the river once more. Since we've been playing with this villain for 100 hands or whatever, we know that when he bets the river, he's got the goods. He's willing to double barrell his entire range (which would be like the top 80 or 90% of all hands, against which we'd have 59% equity on the flop, and 61% on the flop, so clearly we can't fold), but once he reaches the river, in position, he'll check down all hands that have missed, and even his weaker made hands like Ace high, bottom pair, etc. Once he bets this river, we're basically being told we're beat, so we can fold.That's really the only situation (or variations on it) where calling the turn, and folding the river is acceptable, when we're not drawing with proper odds.This post definitely rambled on, but I think I made my points, lol.

[Zach6668 513]

Looking back on the hand I think I might rather raise the turn and fold to a cap or raise the turn and check behind on the river. Anyone think thats the best way to play this hand?

I think the best way to play this hand is to call down from his turn raise, vs most opponents.

[Sheiky 0]

I'd raise QJs UTG, QJo probably muck.I'd call turn call river without a read, though i've no idea how this isn't a ten or something that we lose to, so that's probably a leak.Zach's on fire today.

[Zach6668 513]

Zach's on fire today.

Yeah, I just made some killer posts at StoxPoker too.I've been up for like 21 hours, though. Time for bed.It's amazing how losing $1,300 (130 BBs) in like 100 hands will wake you right up.

[whatgreatis 0]

Yeah, I just made some killer posts at StoxPoker too.I've been up for like 21 hours, though. Time for bed.It's amazing how losing $1,300 (130 BBs) in like 100 hands will wake you right up.

Thank you Zach for the effort you put into that post. It's appreciated.

[checkymcfold 0]

i'm not reading replies cuz they're too long.why would you call the turn and fold the river? if you think you might be ahead, you should call both. if you think you're beat too often to call the river, you should just muck the turn, since you've got 2 outs against the river range you're folding to.edit: briefly scanned replies. i raise QJo utg in 6m if the table is bad. at .50/1, i'd imagine it's fine.

[navybuttons 15]

at .50/1, i'd imagine it's fine.

not if you play the hand like this IMO.

[Zach6668 513]

not if you play the hand like this IMO.

I think QJo probably becomes a fold, if you consider the rake factor, as well. Rake should force up to tighten up a little bit, I think.

[navybuttons 15]

I think QJo probably becomes a fold, if you consider the rake factor, as well. Rake should force up to tighten up a little bit, I think.

i agree.

[david_keena 0]

I have no reads on villain. This hand occurred during the first button rotation of me sitting down.PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q, J. Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.Flop: (6.50 SB) Q, T, 6(3 players)BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB calls.Turn: (4.25 BB) T(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.River: (8.25 BB) 8(2 players)BB bets, Hero folds.Final Pot: 8.25 BBResults in white below: BB doesn't show. Outcome: BB wins 8.25 BB. How many of you raise QJ UTG at 6 max? i would fold or raiseShould I call the river?YES u already have 3.5 BB in the pot.I thought about raising the turn/fold or raise/check behind on river.

u should have foled his raise on the turn if u weren't going to pay him off on the river.