theeeseNutz 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Hey all, I know the topic sounds strange, yet I hope you can help me:I've been playing NL-Hold'Em On- and Off-Line for close to 5 years now, yet Limit poker doesn't make any sense to me...How does it work? I don't mean "how do you play it" but "how does it differ" from No-Limit?A few points on what I don't get:- can you even make descent money without all ins and big bets?- how do you read somebody, if he can only bet 1 amount? How do you intimidate them or bluff them?- during later streets: how the hell do you know where you stand in the hand?- am I right in saying that NL-Hold'Em allows for more creative plays?It's hard for me to explain what I mean, but it seems to me almost like Limit-Hold'Em is poker with training-wheels?I hope somebody can enlighten me on what makes Limit-Poker so alluring to most people...Thanks,Seb Link to post Share on other sites
tj9422- 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 How does it work? I don't mean "how do you play it" but "how does it differ" from No-Limit?A few points on what I don't get:1 can you even make descent money without all ins and big bets?2- how do you read somebody, if he can only bet 1 amount? How do you intimidate them or bluff them?3- during later streets: how the hell do you know where you stand in the hand?4- am I right in saying that NL-Hold'Em allows for more creative plays?It's hard for me to explain what I mean, but it seems to me almost like Limit-Hold'Em is poker with training-wheels?Well its not just Hold'em on training wheels. The betting is a lot differnt but you can build a bank Roll well in limit.Te "differ" between the 2 beside how you play them is limit if played well will has less up and downs in your Bank Roll.1 In keeping a good win rate you can make money in limit Hold'em. You just need to keep a good BR system in place. Don't get me wrong it's a grind. You will not have the big wins with the all-ins but the lost is low also.2 The reads on other players come from betting, checking, and raiseing. Player will show some kind of betting pattern. The book Small Stakes Hold'em Winning Big With Exert Play: David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth And Ed Miller.3To know how you stand on the later streets you need to put the story togather from the start. What did he do pre-flop,flop,turn,and river. You can not just look at one part along.4 I just disargee with you on this one. Play some limit games and you will see.I also started out in No-limit game. When I started to play limit I understood the game better. It could be that I started to read up more on the game of Hold.em and made limit hold'em my BR builder. Hope this helped Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 This thread makes me lol. Link to post Share on other sites
tj9422- 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 This thread makes me lol.Why is That? Was my post that off? Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Nah, i was refering to the OPs post, yours was fine. Link to post Share on other sites
katowhite 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 1) yes you can make decent money playing limit. a popular reference for comparing nl and limit is to multiply the nl limit level by six. so, for example, you’ll see similar swings, bankroll requirements, and winrates between 5/10 nl and 30/60 limit.2) its easier to read opponents and tell where your at in limit, at least for me. you see much more betting in limit, so you have more information to go on. as far as intimidation and bluffing, your not going to be able to blow people off hands. bluffing is often a second or third option, but never really the plan. your not gonna see many three barrel bluffs in limit. 3) refer to 24) yes you can make more creative plays in no limit. Link to post Share on other sites
theeeseNutz 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Thanks a lot Kato and TJ! That already helps me a great deal! Player will show some kind of betting pattern. The book Small Stakes Hold'em Winning Big With Exert Play: David Sklansky and Mason Malmuth And Ed Miller.I actually OWN that book... I did flick through it when I first got it and had hoped it to be about NL... Also it didn't have the answers in it, that you just gave me...Don't get me wrong, I don't collect books without reading them, but I ordered 5-7 books from the US and so had plenty of other NL-books to read that were relevant to me at the time... So I might read it soon and give Limit a bit of a shot (don't like to do it too half-assed, so it'll have to wait a bit longer)A few of the others where:- The poker Mindset- Hold'em Odds and Probabilities- Professional No Limit Hold'em: Volume One from 2+2The last one was VERY good, although pretty focused on advanced play... Just what I was looking for. Link to post Share on other sites
Frez 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 The other guys have touched on the main points. Don't compare 1/2 NL to 1/2 Limit. Compare it to 5/10 or 6/12 limit and you have a similar hourly potential win/loss rate. I'm sure you know the big game at the Belagio is a limit game, from 1000/2000 to 4000/8000 and Hold'em is hardly ever played. You don't see many comparable, say 500/1000, NL games going on do you...Why does the Olympics have sprints and marathons? Hammer throws, shot puts, and the javelin? And who is the best athlete (poker player) in the world, the fan favourite 100m sprinter (NLHE tournament star), or someone who consistently finishes high in the decathon (HORSE games)?It's just different. It makes you think in different ways and learn different skills. I'm not just talking NLHE vs LHE either, learning the basics of all the poker games will make you better in each one of them.Variety is the spice of life!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Shark527 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I started off very similar to you but starting to play around when the poker boom took off. I played play money sit & go tournies on stars until I built a big enough bankroll to cash in for real dollars. I continued playing micro stakes NL because I was always looking for those double up hands everyone loves. I didn't like limit poker either for that reason. Somewhere along the line I got a real desire to better my game and started reading up and researching and found the majority of professional players make their living at limit poker. I've been playing it for a few months now and am enjoying it. It is much more of a grind than NL but I prefer it now. I just finished reading Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones and it helped me understand playing the game better so give that a try. Its all I play if I make a trip to the casino. Getting better at limit hold'em actually helps my NL game. I've switched my overall game to limit cash games and NL tournies. I'm going to try that for a few months. If you currently don't like limit hold'em try a different game like stud to get a better feel for a limit game and trying something new could help to spur an interest in learning more. Link to post Share on other sites
KoRnholio 2 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Forcing people into making decisions on virtually every marginal hand is where most of the money comes from in limit. No folding endless hands and then rushing to push your money in when you hit that set or the nuts Link to post Share on other sites
raiseitup24 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Limit is a complete different game in some cases i actually like limit better than no limit. When im really on my game (I've heard daniel say this as well) I can read situations and players good in limit which helps me read everything better in no limit. Because it is limit you also get a lot of weaker players that dont really know what they are doing (dead money "yum yum") and are trying to learn the game which are very easy to take adavantage of. It also allows you to play more hands which is good for better players who can play good after the flop. So as much as i love no limit when im running bad or think i need to work on something in my game i go to limit its a great learning tool. Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I started off very similar to you but starting to play around when the poker boom took off. I played play money sit & go tournies on stars until I built a big enough bankroll to cash in for real dollars.uh, wut? Link to post Share on other sites
jmkiser 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 This thread is ... interesting... at best.No Limit and Limit are just two different games. Nlhe is closer to nl or pl omaha then it is to lhe.What are the differences?Apples and oranges.You're learning a new game in this territory. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I love limit. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 i love lamp Link to post Share on other sites
tj9422- 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I just finished reading Low Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones and it helped me understand playing the game better so give that a try.Great book. One of the best ones I found on Limit play. Still have to read SSHE. Right now I am starting Internet Texas Hold' EM By:Matthew Hilger. He wrote The Poker Mindset: Essential Attitudes for Poker Success which I really loved. Just finished THE THEORY OF POKER by David Sklansky which Should be the first book that ever poker play readsGetting better at limit hold'em actually helps my NL game. I've switched my overall game to limit cash games and NL tournies. I'm going to try that for a few months.I did the samething.Also I think limit helps a lot for play after the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
navybuttons 15 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Still have to read SSHE. Right now I am starting Internet Texas Hold' EM By:Matthew Hilger.i don't get it. you had a bunch of long-term winning players (some pros some not) telling you that you need to read SSHE (one of the best poker books ever written) like stat, and your starting some crap which is probably the worst poker book ever written. what was your reasoning for that? did you think that because it had "internet" in the title is was going to suit you better? perhaps you're going alphabetically by title or author's last name? perhaps you assign a number to each book and throw darts at a board?if it seems like i'm taking this wayyyy to personally, your right. i'm taking this a little personal (and any amount is wayyyyy too much obviously). i don't know why, it is just insulting to me for some reason that you would start to read crap when we told you where the real nugget is.meh, your decision.goodluck. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 From someone who's read both, SSHE>>>>>>>>>>>>>Internet blah blah blah by Matthew Hilger Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I agree with Navy. I took it personally as well, but I could care less about the guy who doesn't care to help himself, imo. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 It's because Eve took fruit from the tree of knowledge. Therefore, God gave us limit hold'em. No wait, that's pain in child birth. :-)It's just a different game. Link to post Share on other sites
tj9422- 0 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 i don't get it. you had a bunch of long-term winning players (some pros some not) telling you that you need to read SSHE (one of the best poker books ever written) like stat, and your starting some crap which is probably the worst poker book ever written. what was your reasoning for that? did you think that because it had "internet" in the title is was going to suit you better? perhaps you're going alphabetically by title or author's last name? perhaps you assign a number to each book and throw darts at a board?if it seems like i'm taking this wayyyy to personally, your right. i'm taking this a little personal (and any amount is wayyyyy too much obviously). i don't know why, it is just insulting to me for some reason that you would start to read crap when we told you where the real nugget is.meh, your decision.goodluck.Navy you have a good point about SSHE is the best. The reason I was going to read Hilger's book first is because Of the poker mind set. This was one of the first poker books i read. I like his writing. SSHE will help me the most but the bottom line is that I enjoy reading poker books. Good bad or indifferent I would read it. Doing so will also help me know what is bad and what is good. also by knowing how others think about poker will give you a better picture of how to beat more types of players.This may not be the best plain or the plain most will go with but it will help understand the game more.I also wanted a good solid base of all different poker views to understand SSHE better. I started to read The tourney book from David Sklansky but did not get it. So I started THE THEORY OF POKER which gave me a good base to work with. The time I have right now will not allow me to dive in to SSHE like i would like. SO I wanted to read Hilger first for some light reading. Then when I have the time to really dig into SSHE I will.I don't want you guys to think that your help is just going in one ear and out the other. You all have helped so much. Just wanted to be able to really dig in to SSHE the right way to get the most out of it.Hope that this helps you to understand why I was doing what I am doing. Link to post Share on other sites
HollywoodAFD 0 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 i love lampI love carpet(wondering how many will get this) Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I love carpet(wondering how many will get this)Yeah, such an obscure movie reference. Link to post Share on other sites
quadaces 0 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 What is this Limit Hold'em you speak of? I thought NLHE was the only poker that there was! Link to post Share on other sites
tj9422- 0 Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 No folding endless hands and then rushing to push your money in when you hit that set or the nuts Did you mean folding endless hands? Link to post Share on other sites
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