Memo To Atheists

[Loismustdie 0]

Who says we are no better than animals? Seriously?

One of the atheists was arguing that earlier.Must not have been you. Sorry.

[simo_8ball 0]

One of the atheists was arguing that earlier.Must not have been you. Sorry.

Technically it's true. Society is a strange phenomena though.

[xeebo 0]

And finally, if the koran was nothing but lies, I dont believe it coulda withstood the test of time and influenced human behavior, both good and bad for thousands of years. Its falsaehoods woulda been vetted out long ago.

[colonel Feathers 5]

Wow I never Thought of that. You may be on to something. If we could get hillary into a berka it might be something to look into. I admit im not the most articulate guy here, but if thats your contribution to the thread then AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH I Quit.

[Loismustdie 0]

Technically it's true. Society is a strange phenomena though.

Or it's a planned inevitability.

[xeebo 0]

Wow someone succinctly pointed out my horribly flawed logic for why I believe the bible must be true. Instead of saying to myself "yeah, he's right. I will concede that argument, and come back with much stronger and less idiotic ones that can't be broken by simply changing one word", I'm going to sarcastically act like i didn't know the counterargument to my statement (but if i did know my statement was inanely stupid why did I make it) then make some stupid joke about an ugly politician and frustratedly stomp off.

[colonel Feathers 5]

why dont you just post your own ideas instead of hijacking mine.any idiot can bring up a post then change wat was said.

[xeebo 0]

why dont you just post your own ideas instead of hijacking mine.any idiot can bring up a post then change wat was said.

How did I hijack your ideas?The first time I qouted you because it was easier to just change the word bible to koran to try and make my point as to why your logic was flawed instead of writing out a whole new reply. In your reply to that, instead of either conceding your argument was atrocious, or countering my argument you made a sarcastic remark, which I found amusing, and threw a minor hissy fit. I thought it would be fun to respond to this by quoting you and make it sound like you were saying my reply to yourself. Apparently this constitutes hijacking ideas and for that I am sorry. Now that that is cleared, I will take your sarcastic "wow i never thought of that" comment as concession that your statement about the bible was ridiculously retarded and be on my merry way.

[colonel Feathers 5]

Actually you r right, I Did make a huge error.Im trying to argue the existence of God, not advance a religious dogma.The koran actually advances my belief. Since you brought it up obviously your on my side. Welcome

[Don Giovanni 0]

Ancient romans,greeks, visigoths, spanierds, "Evil white europeans" who came to america and ousted the Indians. In fact you darwinists should be applauding our conquest of the in dians as prime examples of the law of survival of the fittest. Well I believe none of that nonsense because I believe in God, and morality comes from him and nowhere else. How do I know this? Because before Moses was given the ten commandments, before the Bible, and before Jesus Christ, There was very few examples of behavior that resmbled anything close to morality. And finally, if the bible was nothing but lies, I dont believe it coulda withstood the test of time and influenced human behavior, both good and bad for thousands of years. Its falsaehoods woulda been vetted out long ago.

so what were the crusades? those were people following their religious morals to kill thousands of people. it goes both ways, a lot of humans are bad people no matter what morals they follow. and even after moses and the ten commandments (which i bet you cant find any evidence of that story happening outside of the bible) there are very few examples of the morals presented in the bible being upheld. religious moral people killed endlessly like everyone else. the bibles lies have not been vetted out becuase people are taught as children that it is all true. still though, a lot of people have overcome that to point out its lie and more and more people are seeing how it doesnt stand up.

[Loismustdie 0]

so what were the crusades? those were people following their religious morals to kill thousands of people. it goes both ways, a lot of humans are bad people no matter what morals they follow. and even after moses and the ten commandments (which i bet you cant find any evidence of that story happening outside of the bible) there are very few examples of the morals presented in the bible being upheld. religious moral people killed endlessly like everyone else. the bibles lies have not been vetted out becuase people are taught as children that it is all true. still though, a lot of people have overcome that to point out its lie and more and more people are seeing how it doesnt stand up.

There are very few examples of the morals upheld in the Bible being actually upheld even TODAY. That's not a product of it being untrue- that's a product of it not being for everybody, in that not everyone will do it. Most people are capable of being ordinary, what God wants is extraordinary, take up your cross and follow me, and then he flat out tells you few will actually do it, and we see that very thing throughout time.

[colonel Feathers 5]

To the relief of many, my final thoughts.I believe God exists. If he doesnt, then whats the point of all this. I know I will probably not convince those who dont care. All I know is when I am lying on my deathbed the ceiling is not the last thing Ill ever see, and I really feel bad for those that do.Maybe Im just naive, ignorant, a tool, or any other number of names Ive been called recently. I DONT CARE. I have a beautiful wife, kids, and more money then Ill ever use.And I have something to look forward to in the next life. Im sure most of you guys are recently educated 20 somethings.I wish you all good luck and hope your lives turn out as well as mine. Now i will go back to doing what I swore to myself what I would only do online. That is post sometime humourus 1 liners in response to idiotic threads in general.

[simo_8ball 0]

Now i will go back to doing what I swore to myself what I would only do online. That is post sometime humourus 1 liners in response to idiotic threads in general.

I believe God exists.

Mission accomplished.(Oh come on, you were asking for it)

[Don Giovanni 0]

I believe God exists. If he doesnt, then whats the point of all this. I know I will probably not convince those who dont care.

the point is to live. why does there have to be a point beyond that?

[Ch'T-Boner 0]

I just believe that religion was "created", tens of thousands years ago, to try to explain things or events that the knowledge of the time couldn't explain. And if for a long time, it we couldn't prove it was false, it's because we had, for a long time, nothing to prove it was false.

If I see someone weaker than me wearing something I want than I should be able to attack and take for myself. Since there is no God, than the law of the jungle should rule. That is the survival of the fittest,as you Darwin fans are well aware of.

To my point of view, this is the best thing that religion brought us in the end : morality. Even thought this morality hasn't sometimes even been respected by the Church itself (by "Church", I mean every religion), the fact is that it had a impact on most of us, even on atheists like me. Darwin just tries to explain how species evolve in a physical way. Most of the time they disappear because they cannot survuvre to new conditions of life (mainly the weather), not because they were tracked by other animals.( In this case, if the animal A eats animal B, and animal B tends to disappear, then A fades in number, And B grows in number as a consequence, so A grows in its turn and that makes a "circle")

Well I believe none of that nonsense because I believe in God, and morality comes from him and nowhere else. How do I know this? Because before Moses was given the ten commandments, before the Bible, and before Jesus Christ, There was very few examples of behavior that resmbled anything close to morality.

Every civilisation had a religion of its own. Egyptians, Summerian, Greeks, Romans, Chinese, Muslims, Japanese, Vikings, African and Polynesian ethnies, Eskimos, Mayas and so on (I don't talk about Bouddhism because it is a philosophy and a way of life more than a religion). Every Civilisation had a morality of its own, answering to different codes. It was pretty fair to sacrifice human beings in some of them. You probably donk think it is, because you're a christian, and you've been taught that. And knowing that, I wonder why there would be one true God? And why would it be yours? You seem to only consider Christianity (or Judeo-christinism) in your reflexion.You also have to know that christianity is a long made up religion. It was created at the origin by very few belivers, that spread their beliefs all over Mediterranean world (Minor Asia, Near Est, Egypt, Greece, Italy, France mainly). From the 4th Century up to now, your religion as you know it, was made by compromise, debates and arguments during different councils and Synods between relgious authorities, sometimes no even considering the Bible. (That's why you can find catholics, otrhodoxs, Protestant, and even different kinds of protestans, Calvinists, Anglicans, Lutherian, Evangelists...) As you might have noticed, it's actually really different than the way it was 2000 years ago. If all Christians had respected the will of Jesus, they would all be Jews, believing that Israël (the promised land) is in the sky, not on earth. And that would basically be it...I also belive that Life on Earth was created by a totally random event : our planet is just close and far enough from the sun at the same time... That's why I also do believe that there is life on some other planet, with pretty much similar conditions to here (and that doesn't mean that the forms of live we would find there are the same)I really don't think you're a tool or anything like it. If you believe in God, I'm fine for you, the most important is that you're happy with it!! I'm really happy you kind of ask questions about it, and maybe trying to understand atheism, which is, intellectually speaking, a good thing (and by that, I'm not meaning atheism is better than "believism").I hope my post was in good english (I'm French, and it's 3 AM...), and was useful and interesting.

[colonel Feathers 5]

Yes it was useful and interesting. And your English is better than mine.

[hblask 1]

No, it's good question. If we are no better than animals that why are we held to a higher standard?

Who said we are no better than humans? We are not held to a higher standard when it comes to eating animals. We slaughter them by the millions.We ARE held to a higher standard to each other, because we have higher brain capacity and a social contract. Neither of these is evidence for or against a god.

[phlegm 6]

Who said we are no better than humans? We are not held to a higher standard when it comes to eating animals. We slaughter them by the millions.We ARE held to a higher standard to each other, because we have higher brain capacity and a social contract. Neither of these is evidence for or against a god.

WHO IS NO BETTER THAN HUMANS?

[Kaveros 0]

The inclination and ability to question Gods existence is argument for his very existence, Being someone of faith, I enjoy lurking here and particularly the posts of loismustdie and the responses of jmkiser and others. So I would like some serious as opposed to retarded responses to some questions ive had. If humans are the result of totally random acts of natural and unguided happenstance, tnen why are humans and only humans given the following qualities. 1 the emotion of love. Especially the unending love {for the most part} of offspring. 2. the ability to solve complex problems. { and please dont link me to experiments with monkeys in cages who learn to pull the lever with food behind it. 3.Recreational sex. 4.Homosexuality, transexuality,pedophilia and any other sexual fetishes only humans engage in. 5.Hate, for the sake of hating. 6.Compassion, or the existence of a conscience. 7.The fear of death. At least among the rational. 8.The pursuit of intellectual endeavors and improvement of lifestyle and the species through medical research. 9. And finally, If evolution was totally random with no outside influence, why is there such a wide gap in the intellegence level between us and our nearest neighbor. Shouldnt there be species almost as smart? And please dont tell me Id be surprised how smart dolphins are And yes i have seen "A hitchhikers guide to the universe" and while finding it mildly amusing, I dont think there is anything in it worth referencing. I am tired and bored, and up way too late. Oh, and where are all the fossils of the failed species that would have to exist in a totally trial and error form of evolution.

1. Incorrect. How you could come to the conclusion that a Lion for example does not show love for its cubs is beyond me.2. Once again Incorrect. Animals all over the planet have been able to do these things. Apes and dolhpins come to mind.3. Incorrect. All sex is recreational.4. Incorrect. Homosexual behavior has been exhibited among many animals5. Incorrect. For example (I am not going to go looking up the video) Gorillas have been noted tosingle out the most "hated" in the group, and kill him slowly as a group, holding him down, nawing at him, beating him, evengoing so far as to saw his dick off and peeling his skin.6. Incorrect. For example, a hippo was once seen to attack a crocodile killing (holding him underwater) a gazelle, andactually ran toward them, attacking and scaring off the crocodile. It then nudged the gazelle to land, where the gazelle thendied, much to the distress of the hippo.7. Incorrect. Have you never seen a rabbit running from a dog?8. Humans are the only ones with a high enough brain power to do so.We have also solved the issue of shelter, food, and survival. We can now focus on these things. No other animal has the time norenergy to do these things, even if it could.9. Well evolution was not random. It happened for specific reasons (and is still happening), individual variableswhich have, over time, come together to form the lifeforms we see today.You also make the assumption that evolution has stopped here. It has not, it is still happening.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

LOL every time a new, fired up atheist or xian finds the religious forums, they get full of pizz and vinegar and bump a bunch of old threads. I think it's cute. Welcome to the forums, Kaveros.

[Kaveros 0]

To colonel Feathers- here is your gods morality:Kill Sons of SinnersMake ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)Morality did not come from this big father in the sky. Morality came from humans!We needed morals and set ground rules to function as a society. So these rules andmorals were formed.To BigDMcGee:I am not really a fired up Atheist. I try to avoid the arguement all together (it makes my head hurt).But I am tired, and thought I would wonder into this forum for a bit of fun. I did not see how old it was.

[colonel Feathers 5]

1. Incorrect. How you could come to the conclusion that a Lion for example does not show love for its cubs is beyond me.2. Once again Incorrect. Animals all over the planet have been able to do these things. Apes and dolhpins come to mind.3. Incorrect. All sex is recreational.4. Incorrect. Homosexual behavior has been exhibited among many animals5. Incorrect. For example (I am not going to go looking up the video) Gorillas have been noted tosingle out the most "hated" in the group, and kill him slowly as a group, holding him down, nawing at him, beating him, evengoing so far as to saw his dick off and peeling his skin.6. Incorrect. For example, a hippo was once seen to attack a crocodile killing (holding him underwater) a gazelle, andactually ran toward them, attacking and scaring off the crocodile. It then nudged the gazelle to land, where the gazelle thendied, much to the distress of the hippo.7. Incorrect. Have you never seen a rabbit running from a dog?8. Humans are the only ones with a high enough brain power to do so.We have also solved the issue of shelter, food, and survival. We can now focus on these things. No other animal has the time norenergy to do these things, even if it could.9. Well evolution was not random. It happened for specific reasons (and is still happening), individual variableswhich have, over time, come together to form the lifeforms we see today.You also make the assumption that evolution has stopped here. It has not, it is still happening.

Damn, I was hoping this thread was laid to rest. But since you brought it up,Instinct for protecting ones offspring is not love.Animals dont have sex for recreation. Hamasexual behavior in animals aint done cause theyre attracted to the same sex. Hispanic silkworms are the only high level invertabrates that enjoy Barbara streisand movies. Speaking of hamasexuals, my pastor told us that being gay was a choice. So I decided to put it to the test. So last week I put on a terricloth robe and fuzzy sandals and together with some white wine and brie,I parked myself on my lawn swing listening to popular showtunes. Lotsa guys walked by, many with tight butts, but I just couldnt seem to get any wood.I finally decided to give it one last try and attempted to rub one off while holding a copy of GQ nmag. Damn if iot didnmt work. So I guess it aint a choice.

[vbnautilus 48]

Animals dont have sex for recreation.

Animals (including humans) have sex for all kinds of reasons. I don't see why that is relevant. Pygmy chimpanzees (bonobos) for example, use sex to resolve conflicts, to trade for valuable items, etc. A recent study from UT Austin categorized over 200 reasons why people have sex, including things like "to make my partner feel more powerful" or "to return a favor". If you think there is some great divide between the sexual behavior of humans and that of other animals it is only because you have not observed carefully.

Hamasexual behavior in animals aint done cause theyre attracted to the same sex.

I'd say having sex is pretty good evidence of attraction. What else could you mean by attraction?

[nopunk 0]

There are very few examples of the morals upheld in the Bible being actually upheld even TODAY. That's not a product of it being untrue- that's a product of it not being for everybody, in that not everyone will do it. Most people are capable of being ordinary, what God wants is extraordinary, take up your cross and follow me, and then he flat out tells you few will actually do it, and we see that very thing throughout time.

If we're all created by god, but only some of us can reach heaven, then god sounds like a real dick.I mean really what kind of benevolent creator would create billions of people only to make the condition necessary to get into heaven relatively exclusive?

[Otter 0]

Disclaimer: I haven't read any responses to these comments. Just went ahead and posted my own thoughts. Highly bored and my internet connection sucks to bad to actually be at the tables making money. Don't get offended by anything I say. Nothing is meant as an attack, I don't expect to be attacked in return. I'm here for intelligent discuss not an "I'm-rubber-you're-glue" argument.

1 the emotion of love. Especially the unending love {for the most part} of offspring.

--- Abstract concept of our {mostly} higher brain functioning. We develop close bonds with others of our species. These bonds exist elsewhere in nature, its just our ability to think abstractly that denotes a difference. The feelings aren't different, just our ability to view these feelings changes as the size of our brains increases.--- A mother lioness will fight to protect her cubs without actually understanding why she does so. She's programmed to do it. She does it. A soccer mom will swing her purse at a mugger who is threatening her baby. She knows why she does it, but in reality are these situations any different? We just call it love instead of nature.

2. the ability to solve complex problems. { and please dont link me to experiments with monkeys in cages who learn to pull the lever with food behind it.

--- Complex for whom? Using a stick to get insects out of a tree seems like a pretty complex thing for a monkey to do considering their brain capacity. You seem to be expecting animals to do the things that humans can do. Thats not going to happen. Its all relative to brain capacity and what their bodies can do. Dogs can pick up scent trails and find lost children, seems pretty complex. Like to see you do that. Gorillas have been taught sign language. I'm assuming you only know how to ask for the check and show that cab driver what you really think of him. Large marine mammals have figured out how to get stupid humans to feed them, give them shelter, and then line up and watch them jump out of the water. Which side of that is dumber?