Canonical Plo8 Hand

[Chamonyx 0]

$600 PL Omaha Hi-Lo Seat 5 is the buttonTotal number of players : 9 Seat 2: Hero ( $468.42 ) Seat 7: folder1 ( $129.71 ) Seat 8: ( $361.30 ) Seat 3: Villain ( $532.10 ) Seat 1: folder2( $181.49 ) Seat 4: folder3 ( $700.19 ) Seat 9: ( $106.88 ) Seat 5: Folder4 ( $591 ) folder1 posts small blind [ $3 ].Folder5 posts big blind [ $6 ].Holecards:Dealt to Hero : Ad Td Qs Js FOLD CALL folder2, $6CALL Hero , $6CALL Villain, $6FOLD folder3CALL Folder4, $6CALL folder1, $3CHECK Folder5Flop: (Pot: $36) 4s Kd 9d CHECK folder1CHECK Folder5CHECK folder2BET Hero $25RAISE Villain $109.20FOLD Folder4FOLD folder1FOLD Folder5FOLD folder2Hero.......?What's your line here? Multi-wrap and 2 flush draws OOP against a set.I think I played it wrong, although it would not have made a difference in this hand, but more of that later.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I think I will just call.Neither one has a significant edge over another on the high side, but villain may have a runner runner low back up, and we are out of position.If the turn card hits mine then I will shove in the rest of my chips and be happy to pick up the pot if villain folds. If I miss the turn then just check-fold and lose a hundredish bucks because my pot equity decreases dramatically say from 50% to 30% or so.I think if I have a significant edge on the flop then of course I shove, when it's about 50:50 then we can wait for the turn and hopefully my villain pays me off if my cards get there.Why not wait for 95% pot equity on the turn to shove instead of 50% on the flop? Sometimes you don't get paid off, that's fine you are against tough shts, but sometimes you do get paid off handsomely.But I know it's easier to write than actually getting it done, sometimes I will gamble on the flop too.

[moneytoburn 0]

easy play to simply repop and get it in a slight dog against set.Other line to check call and lead in any safe turn/ check fold to a brick and pot.I guess it really depends on mood and if you want to gamble there, the way the table had been playing would be a huge factor on my decision. Though I am probably getting in on flop 75% of time.

[Chamonyx 0]

Here is the rest of the hand:Flop: (Pot: $36) 4s Kd 9d CHECK folder1CHECK Folder5CHECK folder2BET Hero $25RAISE Villain $109.20FOLD Folder4FOLD folder1FOLD Folder5FOLD folder2RAISE Hero $336.80ALL-IN Villain [ $416.90 ]ALL-IN Hero [ $100.62 ]Turn : (Pot: $1024.52) AsRiver: (Pot: $1024.52) 4cHero shows Ad Td Qs Js two pairs aces and fours .Villain shows Ks Kc 9h 3h a full house Kings full of fours .So even if I had not pushed on the flop, I would have put it all-in on the turn with all those draws.What I am wondering though is whether it is better to just call the flop raise: Villain has 7 kill outs (as far as I can tell) and letting him get all-in here gives him 2 chances to hit them, even if I make my hand on the turn.If I call, one of 3 things can happen on the turn:I make my hand (15 cards) and can pot it, probably pushing him offHe pairs up (7 cards) and I can foldMy draw improves (8 spades, 2 eights) and I can reevaluateNo help (10 cards) and I can reevaluateIn the last 2 cases, I will have at least 15 outs to scoop out of 42 unknown cards, so I will be better than 2:1 to win and will be correct to call his pot bet on the turn.Letting the set get all-in on the flop seems to help him more than me. I am not saying that pushing the flop is wrong from an EV p-o-v, just that waiting for the turn may be better.Incidentally, the reason I labelled this as "canonical" was due to the demonstration of the power of a set. I have just about the best possible drawing hand against a set ( and infact he has one of his killer cars in his hand) ........ and I am still only 50% on the flop. x

[dadall 0]

i think you analyzed it well...I've also recently realized how powerful sets can be against huge draws. This makes me think that calling on the flop would be the right play, and then making the 50/50 decision with ds flush and str8 draws for all your money (and still losing) on the turn. If i played this hand today, i would just call the reraise on the flop, putting him on a set, and then push on the turn, just in case he didnt have a set since odds are >=50% anyway

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

This online article has a section listed a variety of pot equities between a set and the drawing hands. Even your drawing hands have 20 outs it is just a little favorite.

[Smasharoo 0]

So even if I had not pushed on the flop, I would have put it all-in on the turn with all those draws.What?Drawing dead to a 1 outer a *lot* of the time?good luck.

[Chamonyx 0]

So even if I had not pushed on the flop, I would have put it all-in on the turn with all those draws.What?Drawing dead to a 1 outer a *lot* of the time?good luck.

Why are you discounting the other 20 outs?